Gary, are you off your meds? You agreed with my post quoting and disagreeing with Gri22's post, then in the very next next post you agree with his. Are the voices in your head arguing again?
What I think is hilarious is when you see guys that are hunting some deer heaven or maybe just some nice managed lease in a big buck state and they have an assortment of good bucks. Well they know these bucks intimately, often naming them (Boo-boo, Big boy, Skittles, you get the idea). Well Boo-boo is a good buck and we watch the guy pass the deer multiple times over x amount of seasons because he's not quite what they want or he has great potential. Then the magic season comes when Boo-boos antlers are finally big enough for him to be worthy of an arrow and he shows up and gets killed. Now I have to hear about how to hunt these old, "wise" whitetails, that are the ghosts of the woods and forget about how he has diddy bopped around for 3 or 4 years with a free pass. I find it mildly amusing. Kill a 100"-130" 4 year old on some high pressured land/state......yawn, big deal.
Agreed...I've always said this. Hunting has lost something in this "let it go another year" era. Heck, I'm guilty just because I want my tag on something bigger. But the whole "Ghost of the woods" excitement has lost it's meaning when many big bucks could have or should have been taken many times over. Back in the day - any deer with antlers was taken...when you saw the big boy - you knew that sucker was truly one that beat the odds - a survivor. It's also the reason I have no problem any family/friend taking any buck they want on our place as long as it fires them up. Are we making deer (and mature bucks) "Dumber" by passing them up?
Nope. But, we're not "necessarily" taking a more savvy deer, when we do decide to whack 'em, either. If "Boo-Boo" walks by your stand as a 1.5yr old.....a 2.5yr old.....and you kill him as he walks by as a 3.5yr old.....is he GETTING dumber? Your call.
I fixed it for you. You can come hunt here if you want that warm, fuzzy, good ole' days feeling back. :D
There are plenty of guys that could be cut loose on Lee Lakosky's farms for a couple of seasons and not kill a booner. Having access doesnt equate to success. Many would like to think it would, but the facts are, they just dont have the tools to get it done. Even there, some of the trophies they kill are seldom ever seen during legal hunting hours. Sometimes, the first opportunity for a shot was the first time the deer ever presented an opportunity in two or more years. But, if I had to put money on someone to kill a 100" buck in heavily hunted public timber, Lee would be a pretty good bet. He is one of the few with the tools and access to take B&C class deer on a regular basis. Unfortunately for the sport, that makes some guys jealous and they whine about their own lack of opportunities and discount his accomplishments. Doubt if he really cares. lol
This is a good point, but to your point if you dropped a good public land hunter in MI on Lee's farm for a week and dropped Lee on that guy's public land for a week with the goal of shooting a 170" buck and a 100" buck respectively I wouldn't be a bit surprised if both went home empty handed. That doesn't mean they don't have to tools, but neither task is as easy as many would like to make it out to be.
I understand your point Bry, but to tweak it a bit. You get to visit Lee and hunt for a week and he gets to visit you and hunt for a week. You both might eat tag soup, but who has the better odds?
Only way to know is to find "x". How many booners per 1000 acres at Lee's vs. How many 100 inchers per 1000 acres at your place. Might surprise you.
Is a buck that is 3-5 years old that may go 100"-130" in a smaller buck state as savvy as 3-5 year old that goes 170 in a notoriously bigger buck state, facing similar hunting pressure? No couldn't be.
As with many debates here, one can broaden the topic to bolster thier side, or pull out one tiny instance and use that as ammo. And in most cases neither really represent the true aspects of the debate. Whether its due to genetics, age, habitat, hunter density, etc, some states have (and are capable of producing)far more bucks of X" than others. That is plain fact. Now what also gets missed in thread like this is a state being "averaged out". Obviously no single piece of land can be exactly like another, whether its in the same township, or half way across the country. But if you take all the hunting lands and the deer that live on them in Iowa, and all the land & accompanying deer in South Carolina.....Your odds of killing a big buck of X" is going to be greater in Iowa. And its ok for it to be that way. Doesn't mean the schmuck hunting crappy land in Iowa sucks, or the guy in SC "only" killing 90" bucks sucks either. It just means that averaged out, one place is likely to give you a better opportunity than the other.
Good question. I'm not really sure. It would depend on who does all the homework that gets her deer killed. If she is doing it herself, no problem. If she is just going where Lee tells her to, then no, I wouldnt bet on her.
Ummm...Ummm...maybe the good ole' days weren't so good:D but I do miss that "magicness" of seeing the true giant whitetail...but I guess I still have a similar feeling when seeing top end deer...it's probably more related to me being younger then, maybe less of a hunter, and I just hadn't seen many yet in the early years.
JE is known for having a chip on his shoulder. He writes books and articles about killing older bucks in pressured areas. Anytime you put yourself out there, you are open to criticism. He gets criticized for only killing 100"-130" deer by others in the pro hunting community. This is him taking indirect shots at those people. He shouldn't have to defend himself, and he shouldn't do it in this way. The whole thing is ghey. Its really just a penis measuring contest. Go kill deer and have fun, whatever size that may be. All the does I kill have the same size antlers. Can we start a thread about doe weights so I have something to argue about? We got some big ones around here! Not like those dinks down south.
Would be an interesting thing to find out if it was possible. Lee's got some (plenty) of sweet acres to hunt.
Question for Pope and Young guys... Does the P&Y club have a "handicapping" system for State records? Like Ohio takes a 125" ( I think) is Iowas or Illionois a higher Minimum? If so, by knowing each States minimum score we could easily make an excel spread-sheet to calculate the achievement of say a 110" Pa Buck to a 165" Iowa Buck. Maybe even factor in the States#1 Typ and non-typ scores for comparability...this would only be a reference for our membership.
I could be wrong, but I don't believe P&Y has any handicapping system. Most or all states have their own individiual clubs with their own minimums. MI has Commerative Bucks of Michigan (CBM). I believe the minimums are....archery is 100" and firearm is 125". Completely separate from P&Y. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'm sometimes wrong...sometimes.
