http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist:_The_Movie [video=youtube_share;O6CKTqC0-4M]http://youtu.be/O6CKTqC0-4M[/video] [video=youtube_share;EIB6z4fkINs]http://youtu.be/EIB6z4fkINs[/video] This is the first time ive ever really ventured into this stuff. If you dont know what im talking about by the thread title, watch the 2 series of videos that i posted. basically, conspiracy theories. Very interesting ones at that. I do get a little offended and emotional when 9/11 inside job theories are brought up, as everyone knows, not only was it the worlds worst modern day terrorist attack, but it was also the biggest rescue in the history of the fire service, and the biggest tragedy, with 343 FDNY members losing their lives that day. Deep stuff. But it does make for good conversation, and there are a few guys whos opinions im looking forward too (Preacher Tony, Pastor Jim, Hooker, Vito among others...) Discuss...
To me it boils down to do we believe the government....No!!!!!!! I can't believe that ''we'' did this to ourselves..... Remember all the conspiracy theories after Pearl Harbor? .....but one never really knows.....I just want to sit in a tree.....
I think most conspiracy theories VASTLY overestimate our government and their ability to keep secrets. They are fun to argue over, but in the end there is most likely a very logical reason they have never been proven, because it simply didnt happen that way.
I have watched videos and read information on both of these subjects before. I find both of them intriguing. First subject dealing with kings or gods. It makes a very compelling argument. The most difficult thing with this subject is there isn't a lot of proof for one side or the other. All "evidence" is extremely old, and open to interpretation. Its really what you choose to believe. I do find the information regarding astrology to be very intriguing, and perhaps the best "evidence" we have to work with. The second subject dealing with 9/11 is also very intriguing. Trouble is with conspiracy theories, both sides leave out important information in their argument. Those in favor that this was an inside job, do provide some very interesting information. The opposition to this conspiracy theory doesn't have much to offer. Their evidence is foggy at best. It really comes to if you feel our government is capable of something like that. I believe it is, but still can't be certain who is at fault here. I have had the pleasure of guiding numerous fisherman from other countries. I have had some great conversations with them. The resounding commonality in their opinion about Americans is, naivety. In their experience and opinion, other parts of the world are sort of shocked at what the American people believe from the government, and news media. It is also very noticeable to them how much fear, both in relation to terrorism and economy, the government has created in the American people. I find it interesting how obvious it is to an "outsider".
I believe that the goverment itself is good, and wasnt involved in the 9/11 conspiracy. But, is it possible that some small goverment agency, or group of individuals within the goverment helped plan it or were involved? yes. It is. And more then likely IMO is true.
It just seems so Chicken Littleish to me. I don't believe 2/3 of the crap spewed on tv or by politicians....I just think it gives the government WAY too much credit to pull off something this big and keep it under wraps. I also think whether or not the plane was shot down has NO relation to whether the US gov planned 9/11. Shooting down a terrorists plane heading for the capital isn't unthinkable. Losing hundreds of lives would suck, but far less than if that plane crashed smack dab into the capital or pentagon. I could see why they would even want to cover it up for PC reasons if they did make that decision, but it doesn't even connect to a thought that they planned for it to be hijacked in the first place. On one hand you are saying they planned the whole attack as an excuse to go to war. On the other hand you are saying they took measures to stop the attack, but didn't publicize it for PC reasons. These don't go together. As for foreigners opinions, they likely know about as much about how the majority of Americans really think/act as I do about their country, which is zilch for those wondering.
That would be an incorrect assumption, at least when it concerns those I have spoke with in depth on this issue. Americans, in general, don't pay much attention to the happenings in the rest of the world. Such as you suggested when stating you know "zilch". That part is accurate. On the flip side, the rest of the world pays more attention to what we are doing. What our government is doing. What our military is doing. How our economy is doing. Those things affect the rest of the world, and they realize it. Americans are arrogant. Its the good ol' boy mentality. That can't be denied. The media in other countries covers what is happening in the United States when it comes to government, military, and our economy. The main difference, in their opinion, is the media is unbiased. Stating our media is biased is nothing new. Are we naive as a country? I don't know for sure. There is certainly a lot of evidence to assume so. I believe naivety is the star in both of the subjects Siman posted.
My favorite subject is American history. It is a subject I have studied at both the collegiate and non-collegiate levels as it greatly intrigues me. My favorite time period is the Revolution through the ending of the War of 1812. I find this period most interesting because it’s the very root of our modern society (not counting religion of course). While I don’t truly believe in conspiracies I do find one very seldom spoke about conspiracy to be extremely fascinating – Federalism. For those not familiar, the federalists were first formed by Hamilton in the cabinet of Washington. They were the enemy of the other opinion, Jefferson, also under the same cabinet. Interestingly enough they were expelled from the country after the ending of the war of 1812 when many northeastern members (mainly in New York) were plotting to secede from the country and realign themselves and their states with England. Here’s the interesting part… they never really vanished… they simply went underground and stayed there. However, their influences are still felt today by many of our governments institutions. Former vice president, **** Cheney, was even president of the new American Federalist Society (and he literally shot a dude and got away with it). My point is… imagine if a single political party held power since the very first days of our country’s beginning. They would surely be the most powerful organization in the country, influencing much of how we live today because of roots dating back to Washington and the very first cabinet. And they do it under the table. I’m not saying that such a thing still exists like it once did, or that they even go so far as to change American thinking to simply better themselves and their agendas…. But what if? I could go on for hours on the connections but I don’t wish to bore. I will say that hardcore Republican voters should be weary of the extreme right side of that party – they follow too closely to the Federalists of old in my opinion. They should not be trusted. Always an interesting topic.
Trevor, these two statements sort of contradict each other. You don't think they can keep secrets, but you also don't believe what they say? I'm not sure I follow.
Which would not be all that different than the video's claim to the start of christianity. That, being formed to manipulate people under one rule. To gain social control. Once that rule was established, wars and/or slaughters began. What do we know about history? It repeats itself.
Im not claiming anything. My knowledge of politics doesnt extend past the little goverment of my township...lol.
Having lived outside the USA for over 3 years (granted, it was long ago) I would agree with this. I DO believe we are naive (and arrogant, but, with good reason) as a country but I also do not think that is necessarily a bad thing.
Since I'm at work, I can't really watch the videos, but I'm assuming the first is about the similarities between story of Horus and Jesus? And the second being mostly 9/11 inside job theories? I got really into this kind of stuff while in college. I was determined to prove that everyone was just blind sheep following whatever they were told. I believed some of it, but most of it I knew were just a few facts twisted here and there to make a point. Do I think we know everything about 9/11? Of course not. Do I think it was an inside job? No. Do I think the government lies to us constantly? Of course. Is it for the better good of the country? Most likely. The majority of people probably could not handle the entire truth. And do we really need to know? I don't think so. I used to hate apathy. I thought it was what was wrong with this country. Nobody was passionate about anything. Now I'm pretty apathetic towards most anything that does directly affect myself or my family. Is that a good thing? Probably not.
The biggest Inside Job was Wall Street and the financial collapse in 08. Everyone and everything was connected and they got away with it with billions in bonuses. Saw a great film called, um, Inside Job, that laid it all out. Won an Oscar. Worth checking out i you want to get depressed and angry. LOL. Cos all you can do is LOL. LOL.
Interesting thread and topics ! I to am a history buff mostly American history I took just about every American history class in college from pre revolution to modern.
That was only the beginning with the Federal Reserve. For anyone that wants to take the time, the supposed plot and "successes" of the Federal Reserve are frightening. It includes multiple stock market crashes, depressions, two world wars, vietnam, war on terrorism, housing market crash, etc. All which lead to them making countless amounts of money...if true. Conversely, if we are so easily manipulated, how do we know the information about the Federal Reserve is not a ploy to manipulate us in the direction they really want us to go? See what all this leads to? Its just easier to a pawn.
I don't believe the whole we care about the people spill. They are in politics lookin out for themselves...same reason I'm going into pharmacy. Sure it will be nice helping people w healthcare, but I wouldn't be doing it if they made janitorial wages... I think they do things to benefit themselves/give a PC reason for it. Difference is, I don't think they are near competent enough to pull it off on a 9/11 scale. I also don't see how a 9/11 directly benefits those people we are claiming conspired to let it happen.
