Your opinions please>>Faster or heavier arrow???

Discussion in 'Tech Talk' started by rachunter, Dec 13, 2021.

  1. rachunter

    rachunter Newb

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    I shoot a Mathews Chill X, at 29" draw and 55# for deer hunting.

    I am buying new broadheads and have a choice of 100 grain or 125 grain.

    My current arrow is a Gold Tip Velocity 400 spine, 28", 100-grain broadhead shooting 275fps. The total arrow weight is 367 which comes to 61.62 kinetic and .448 slugs, the FOC is 9.6 and comes to 6.6 grains per pound.

    I know it will not make a huge difference but since I am buying new broadheads if I move to 125-grain broadhead with the same arrow it would give me 392-grain arrow weight that would make the kinetic energy 61.11 and a slug number of .461, the FOC would move to 12.26 and 7.1 grains per pound. The downside would be I would lose 10 fps the heavier arrow would be at 265fps.

    Is it worth giving up 10 fps for a better FOC and heavier arrow????

    How do you decide if a faster arrow is better than a heavier arrow???

    Thanks for any input you can give me.
     
  2. fowcbler

    fowcbler Weekend Warrior

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    You just make a decision, use it, and weigh results.
    Don't like results, make new decision, and repeat.

    To counter your question with a question, is the 100gr arrow setup working?
    If so, why the change?
     
  3. rachunter

    rachunter Newb

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    Well to be honest the only reason I am considering the change is that the broadheads I have been using for the last 10 years have become very hard to find and so I am going to purchase about 12 new broadheads. So I figured if I was going to make a change this would be the time to do it.

    A couple of years ago I switched from Gold Tip Hunter XT's (8.2 gpi) to the Gold Tip Velocity XT (7.4 gpi) this resulted in an arrow that is 22.4 grains lighter. In my research for new broadheads, I keep reading about FOC and how arrows can be too light. I think all of this reading just makes me think too much....LOL.

    I shot both field points yesterday 100 and 125's and other than having to move my pins I could not really tell any difference from 10 to 50 yards. The pin gaps are a little wider but they both flew well.

    I just do not want to buy a bunch of new broadheads and then wish I had bought the other weight.
     
  4. fowcbler

    fowcbler Weekend Warrior

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    Yes, reading and watching a bunch can make one think too much.
    If the field tests on both worked, then "run what you brung" and be confident in your choice.
    Its when you start second guessing yourself that you stop having fun.
     
  5. trial153

    trial153 Grizzled Veteran

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    Your probably okay with a .400 spine arrow at those specs even bumping up your point weight to 125 grains. I don’t see any downside there.
     
  6. 0317

    0317 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    you can also use the GT Fact Weights, all my heads are 100 grs, so I added 20grs to the inserts, I'll play around after the season and may add another 20 grs which will bump up from 432ish grs to 452ish grs, I want to add a tad more FOC (maybe).. I dont need new BH's, as Ive got plent 100 gr Exodus and Wicked Tricks ... I have both the Velocity Xt's in 340 and 300's ... but if you are getting new heads anyways, the 125's should be fine at your draw wt, see how they tune .....(I'm at 60 lbs right now/28" arrow/30" draw).... I got the fact wts and the long insert tool a while back for the 300's, the 340's have the 50gr full inserts in 'em, I wish I had used the facts weights with the regular inserts instead as it is now next to impossible to get those long inserts out ...
     
  7. fowcbler

    fowcbler Weekend Warrior

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    What are you using to make up the 2+" difference in TAL and DL?
     
  8. 0317

    0317 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    it is all in the Rest and where the arrow is cut .. I cut my arrows so they are 1 inch or so in front of the rest arms when up ... I use a HDX .... same for my Ripcord on the back up bow .... Ive done this for many many years .. Ive never seen the need to go in front of the riser as some do with a full capture rest, I dont want nor need those long arrows, plus cutting as I do, that arrow is stiffer .....
     
  9. fowcbler

    fowcbler Weekend Warrior

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    If this is DL how does your arrow not fall off the rest? Genuinely curious...
    RESIZED - Draw length.jpg
     
  10. trial153

    trial153 Grizzled Veteran

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    Good question, very astute.

    Measured AMO draw length is your diagram plus 1.75.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2021
  11. 0317

    0317 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    what ?? ... not hard to understand ........ cut IN FRONT OF THE REST ARMS, not behind them, as I said ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2021
  12. 0317

    0317 Die Hard Bowhunter

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  13. 0317

    0317 Die Hard Bowhunter

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  14. fowcbler

    fowcbler Weekend Warrior

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    That makes sense, however your grip throat appears to be right in front of the arrow rest as well, and DL is typically measured from String to Grip Throat so it looks like your arrows should basically be the same as your DL.
    Thus the confusion.
    Not trying to stir anything up, just looking for clarification on my understanding of how DL is measured.

    So with an arrow measuring to the length of that diagram (0317's pictures roughly), then it makes sense that a 28" arrow plus 1.75" would basically be a 30" DL.

    Thanks for info.
     
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  15. Mod-it

    Mod-it Die Hard Bowhunter

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    My 3d setup is around the same, arrow is shorter than my actual DL. I cut them as short as safely possible to eek out all the speed I can.
    I've never actually measured a bow's actual DL, I've had DL module bows for a long time now and just set it where it feels best to me and yields best pin float. That normally is 27.5" DL setting. My new bow seems to be a bit long and I use the 27" spot for it to feel "right".
    So, while I have a 27.5" DL, my 3d arrows are cut at 26.25" long carbon to carbon and I have no concerns of drawing them off the rest. This worked fine with my old bow with a QAD on it, and I still use the same arrows on my new bow with a Trinity on it and have no concerns of drawing them off the rest either.
    I am now a bit curious what actual measured DL would come out to, but I don't have the equipment to safely take that measurement myself.
    My hunting arrows I leave a bit longer, I simply prefer the BH to sit out a bit farther.
     
  16. BB1

    BB1 Weekend Warrior

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    I prefer heavier;
    57# 28.5 dl. I went to 125 gr head with my GT Hunter 400, didn’t have the arrow flight I liked. Moved up to 340 spine and played around with GT FACT weights and my bow really likes 125 gr head with 40 gr of FACT weights. I don’t care about FOC or FPS or KE, my self imposed Max range is 30 yards and I don’t have any issues with this setup; fixed blade don’t have any mechanical head data.
    If you can, tinker around and find out what YOUR bow likes best ( very possible it is what you are shooting now) then go hunt. Good luck!!


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  17. Heckler

    Heckler Grizzled Veteran

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    I am still not sure why there is so much debate on this topic? Arrow performance is a mathmatical calculation. Those numbers don't lie. The goal is to get maximum KE sacrificing as little speed as possible. That momentum tops off at a specific arrow weight and the only thing you are really doing beyond that point is trading speed for additonal weight which will actually lower that KE value. Just like with a rifle I would rather shoot lasers instead of lobbing the rounds on target so what is the benfit of increasing weight if you are negativly impacting the performance of the projectile by doing so? One can argue that some archers or their equipment might shoot better with a arrow that falls outside of those perimeters. I'd say something else is wrong if that is the case...

    What am I missing?
     
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  18. rachunter

    rachunter Newb

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    I am just trying to figure out how to find the sweet spot that you mentioned above. How do I know where the momentum tops of and you start trading speed for weight???
    Can a hunting arrow be too light???
     
  19. Heckler

    Heckler Grizzled Veteran

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    All kinds of online tools that will allow you to tinker with the values and figure this out.

    Here is one:
    http://backcountrybowhunting.com/calculator/
     
  20. bowhuntersteve

    bowhuntersteve Newb

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    KE is roughly the same per bow pound and draw length unless something extreme. Heavier will always have slightly higher KE at the target from lower wind drag.



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