Ya'lls opinions on high fence hunting or "whitetail preserves"

Looking forward to the lesson...be safe! Don't forget to pack your fall protection.

Hey, and when you begin your lecture, would yo do me a favor? Would you please avoid the piecemeal and generalizations. Please account for all the pages in the book. I hate to break it to you, but not all men are exactly five feet ten inches tall.

 

You sir, are a very patient man.

 

If you had a big shooting house over a corn pile behind a high fence you wouldn't need that fall protection. Why would people not "hunt" like this?

 

Not quite sure where you're going with this.

 

This has gotten so silly.

There is an exeption to every rule, and I'm sure there is some fenced operation somewhere that has one animal in a 100,000 acre briar patch that is impossible to hunt. I suppose the client pays HUGE money just for the challange right??

Just admit it. People pay big bucks to hunt behind a fence in order to increase their odds on taking a trophy animal. Your making it seem like these fenced operations are somehow more difficult than hunting in the wild.

Guess what....if that were true, those places would be out of business. Many of them DO gaurantee an animal or your money back.

Lets be honest for one minute can we? In MOST fence operations the odds are infinately better than the average Jo hunting wild animals. Now remember..I said most. Not talking about the mythical fences that surround an area the size of Canada that let one axis deer loose for you to go find.

Just admit it. Clients would not pay HUGE money if the were not VERY likely to get their trophy in the couple days they get to hunt. How can you argue that??

Lets add a little reality to this thread.

I said this once already and stand by it.

"The truth is that I can't see how you can rationally compare the two type of hunting as similar. Most of us on this site will hunt the entire season with the hopes of one chance at a nice deer. Not even a Monster, but just a Nice deer. Most of us on this site will not get that chance. Some will get lucky, and some will not. THAT IS HUNTING. NOT KILLING, BUT HUNTING.

Do you really think people would pay the big bucks to have those odds?? No. They come for a couple days, or a week, and EXPECT to harvest a trophy buck. Many times "or your money back".

How can you say the difficulty level is the same? You will argue the "ease" part all day? How? "

Lets stop trying to point out the exeption, and look at the rule.

 

MN,

you dont need 100,000 acres to get lost. You dont really need 10,000 acres, its a pretty big plot of land and you're talking about finding the one animal.

You're neglecting that some areas in the US have a much denser population of animals than some areas where animals are more scarce. When you "hunt" in an area that is overrun with lets say deer, is that really hunting? I dont think the people living in the area with a scarce amount of deer would say so. When you hunt in the wild over a waterhole, where basically any nearby deer is guaranteed to come through, can you really call that "hunting" when all you do is wait over that hole? Just like baiting? Trail cams? Guides? Tree stands? Dogs?

To me it's all relative, and for high fence it depends on the operation. Not all are created the same, but it can be more difficult than the wild. The wild kind of deer may add some difficulty, but it's more the density in my opinion. The method of high fence to contain them doesn't do much if it's a couple thousand acres. We can't bring up that "deer can't escape" because they sure can escape you, they just walk 100 acres the other way.

 

I could care less if someone hunts a high fence operation. Their choice.

Many properties have huge bucks that are free ranging because they manage.

However, not too many of those purchase bucks like siman posted and breed only the best genetics. You're kidding yourself if you don't think the odds increase substantially on THESE farms of killing a massive whitetail than on free range areas. Of course you do have to pay for it.


I don't care if the deer is in a 1 acre plot and someone pays to shoot it for their consumption. To me, its no different than cattle.




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Depending on the operation, your odds of killing a buck with giant horns increases, not the killing of the buck itself.

If you want to go that route, if it's not spot and stalk on public land, its not hunting. Baiting, treestands, dogs, trail cams, guides is killing not hunting. Its pretty easy to generalize like that.

 

On some operations, these animals are not "wild" they have little to no fear of humans. So the odds of killing them does increase drastically.


I watched a "hunting show" some time back where a guy was stalking up a hill on a 170"buck. He was cralling in leaves at least 6" deep making all kinds of noise.

He crawled within 30 or so yards of it and then killed it with a pistol. :D no way a "wild" animal lets him do that.

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Tfox, I dont dispute your claims and I agree, there will be some places like that. But you're grouping them all together, wouldn't you think it unfair to be grouped together with all the hunters including poachers? Heck you get grouped with high fenced hunters from many people which you hate, yet, you do the exact same to high fenced hunters.

 

I was offered a "free hunt" by an outfitter on their land as a token of gratitude for my RN wife's care of their very sick infant. There are 2 reasons I kindly turned them down, and both are ethical reasons.

1) It would be unethical for me to "profit" off my wife doing her job as a nurse.

2) I don't consider it to be hunting b/c the behavior of the deer is manipulated to bring them in to specific kill zones where customers are placed.

For me, hunting is more than the kill. Scouting for natural food and water sources, identifying movement and bedding patterns, and putting my stands in what are hopefully the best locations all describe what I consider hunting. Paying someone else to do it for me defeats the purpose.

It used to be the policy of the US to raise cattle for Indian Reservations where the men could get on a horse, enter a pin, and "hunt" an animal released into the pin so they could provide meat for their family. That image will prohibit me from ever considering commercial high fence "canned hunts" from being actual hunting.

That's just me.

 

bogenjager,

Isn't baiting and salt licks and kill plots and fencing manipulating deer to specific kill zones?

 

I do none of those things for that reason. In fact, the land I hunt has minimal barbed wire fencing that is easily crossed by the deer population, has natural ponds, and wild oak and pecan trees to supplement the food they find on other farms.

 

That's why I said some and they are the ones that form most opinions.

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I was just being a smartass about high fence hunting. When I think of high fence I think of something like Samson's Ridge. I don't consider it hunting at all. And I do know that not all high fence operations are like this, but it's just what I envision when I think about high fence hunting. Having several thousand acres behind high fence doesn't bother me, it's letting hand fed deer out to be shot for TV that bothers me. It's a joke and shouldn't be considered hunting. But, to each his own. If people need to kill deer like this and brag about it then more power to them.

 

I have never hunted behind a high fence and probably never will. I have however worked on both breeding farms and preserves.

If we are going the "it's killing, not hunting" route.... Raise your hand if you gun hunt for deer? So it's ok to blast an animal from 300 yards out where he has no chance in the world of knowing your presence but bowhunting behind a fence is bad? How many sit bait piles for bear in Canada? Bear down or come back next year for free. I'm sitting over 1 of 3 watering holes in a several mile radius right now hunting Wyoming antelope, should be a slam dunk but still haven't killed one of these rascals. I killed my last antelope via spot and stalk so thought I'd give this blind hunting a shot for a change of pace. Ive hunted over bait for whitetails before, I don't anymore as I feel it decreases my chances at the bigger bucks.

Just because you don't choose to do something doesn't make it easier or wrong.

I can't wait for someone to argue to me how hard rifle hunting is.... If I'm making a list of unfair hunting advantages a gun goes first and foremost. The hunt should begin once you are within a couple hundred yards, not end.

 

Shoot...I don't even get a kick out of hunting with my shotgun in the thick woods really anymore...unless just filling the freezer. Hope to experience my first full blown rifle hunt this next year when I chase antelope out in Wyoming or elsewhere.

 

The way this thread is goin the gun will be over looked because the animal can still run away becsuse there's no fence. I agtee with your post and basically how I feel. With everything people do to get a advantage on wild game to me having a fence around even couple hundred acres is no different. I'm not real sure some people realize how big a area 1 acre is let alone 500 or 1000.

Good luck with the hunt, or are you killing? Ha ha

 

I agree 100% with you. This is why I do not gun hunt anymore. It makes things way too easy, plus I hate the sea of orange. Not to down those that gun hunt, it's just not for me.

 

The thought of a canned purchase with animals that have been raised somewhere else and then put inside of a fence, is deemed horrible if not by all on here, it would be by most. This is a farming experience and by most is nowhere near a hunting experience.
What is being debated is: several hundred or thousands of acres being fenced in with animals that are native to the fence and are considered to be wild and free ranging behind the fence. I would consider myself very happy to be living in the state of Illinois when it comes to fencing laws and wildlife. In Illinois you can legally put up a high fence, but before you do so you must remove all wildlife and prepare the site for agriculture related animals. It is illegal to fence in all wildlife in Illinois, however after speaking with the DNR today they revealed squirrels, coons, birds, etc. need not be removed because they have the ability to climb or fly, but animals such as deer or coyotes would be trapped and this is considered to be illegal. I would have to ask myself, if the process of a high fence is no different and completely ethical, why would it be illegal? If you are talking about pen raised deer, then we all know this agriculture related, not wildlife related.
It is possible for the farmer to legally buy an agriculture permit to put pen raised deer in the enclosure, but obviously this would not be a hunting experience being recognized. The DNR mentioned that the wildlife belongs to the people and the state, not to an individual property owner and this is why you would be arrested to pursue wildlife behind a high fence.
So the next time you see a guy on the internet from Illinois and he is doing his hero shot without the fence behind him, you will realize, he is not only embarrassed about the fence, but the farm animal permit from the department of agriculture also.
The comment was made that food plots, tree stands, bows, guns, etc. are equal to a fence. Why is it that we are so proud of our food plots, bows, guns, etc. that we take pictures and show everyone how proud we are and the wannabe pretending behind the fence isn't smiling next to his eight foot fence? Isn't he proud of the fence? I think the high fence is left out of the picture because they want to seem legitimate and as soon as the fence is seen, it is resembled as fake.
It’s kind of funny to see Boone & Crockett’s stance on high fences. Boone & Crockett claims if the fence is three sided and not enclosed it is not fair chase and not able to be recognized. Get this; they will review a deer that was harvested next to a two sided high fence.
I am happy to say, since hunting wildlife behind a fence in Illinois is illegal and farming is farming, I will leave this debate to someone who lives in a state with different laws.
In the end with the diseases, inbreeding and being made fun of, it is just not worth it.