Ya'lls opinions on high fence hunting or "whitetail preserves"

I say ease because let's be honest. These places thrive on that fact. Many promise you a chance at a Booner caliber buck, yes not all of them do, but most high fenced hunting places you pay for how many inches you want to take home with you. I mean seriously in order to guarantee not only a buck, not only a huge buck to pretty much charge thousands you've gotta deliver. If it was just as hard as wild free range hunting, these places would not exist at all, because there would be no benefit to the operation to the pockets of the owner and operators. The battle over how easy it is doesn't truly matter to me, act within the law and acknowledge it's not fair chase and I am cool with it.

 

I'm your huckleberry.

“Hi, its hunting.” – No it is actually not hunting and because of you everyone understands that a little bit better now.
“That article does not prove anything, go ahead and find excuses for how each time we artificially help deer out isn't affecting genetics but you're kidding yourself. Quotas affect populations that only lets the smartest ones survive the hunters, those are the ones who breed more. Pretty sure that is affecting genetics.” – I provided facts and once again you only offer a flawed opinion. Maybe ask a hunter how many deer they pass up each year.
“. I think its a joke that you would stand behind baiting and dog hunting and using overhead imagery, wearing all those camo clothes and try to distance yourself from high fence. Some high fence ill agree will be those places you go up and shoot, but there are legit operations.” – I stand behind all hunting that is legal and fair chase. You buy farm animals & I hunt there is a big difference.
“Sure you can say that many find SCI a joke, but I can find many that would disagree with you, that doesn't matter because we wont get anywhere with that argument.” – We will not. When it comes to hunting I support no organization that glorifies farm animals.
” It seems hard for you to understand that animals in a high fenced area with high acreage is no different than a certain small national park acreage, or farmer joe funneling kill points on his fence line.” – It is very different. You are trying to shoot an animal that is trapped in a fence. Let’s be clear, someone lets you in a fence and the gate is shut behind you. Anyone that sees this understands what is going on. Most farmers fences can be jumped by a deer, the ones that can’t be jumped are not four sided. A small public national park that is public ground is actually some of the hardest hunting, not some of the easiest.
“Can deer really escape an island? Really?” Yes not every island is miles from the next island. Plenty of footage of this.
“Really? Regulations keep us legal and fair? Really? Is that why there is every state has the same laws? Fair? Times have changed are you saying that back in the 1800s animals were not caught fair? Never did see how fair it was to the buffalo who were ran off cliffs in the thousands by native americans.” – Boy I bet the Indians would be proud of what you are doing.
“When you buy a tag, you dont pay for an animal? I think you do.” – Actually my tag money goes towards: Conservation, Management, Protection, and wise-use of game, non-game, and threatened and endangered species for both current and future generations. What does high fence money support? More farm animals to replicate what hunters achieve and what buyers of farm animals dream of being able to do.

 

Actually I am not him. Anyways no use arguing with you because sound logic and reason seem to go right over your head.

 

It is abundant there, much like many places in the US that have an abdunance of deer. High fence would be no different than a densely populated area of wildlife. It's just you have different genetics and animals that have been allowed to grow.

 

You have no sound logic or reason. It has been proven above over and over.

 

And not allowed to leave, vacate or move to another location...not the same. You really must have a twisted view of it, or you own or work at one personally. I have no problem with them operating, as a matter fact I am a fan of any business started in the US not under the government's arm...however it is different. Collared deer in the wild alone in one hunting season have traveled miles from their home range, fences stop that natural occurrence from happening.

Defend them, state that some are vast and HUGE and close to fair chase in the wild...but the fact is they are different. That is a fact that cannot be disputed by an intelligent thought. If they were the same they wouldn't be able to charge more than the large outfitters, they wouldn't attract your big CEO type guys who hunt maybe twice a year (this can't be proved I know but I'm beginning to get frustrated...and it's probably true hah!), they would operate under the same laws and licensing that fair chase hunters follow....but none of those things occur. They attract large and deep pockets, they are utilized by those that can flip a bill so large some of us don't make enough in one year to hunt there, and everywhere I know they don't follow the same laws and licensing. It's different, not fair chase. Call it for what it is and defend it for what it is: A business which as long as it is operating legally within the lines of the law has every right to operate as it wishes.

 

Whoever is saying that it is "hunting", and that it is "just as challanging as real hunting" are either stupid, or trying to justify the deer they "bought". You can hunt, or you can buy a deer. Do what you want, but don't call it hunting.

 

Thats me and who you're talking about and you're totally wrong on your assumptions. It is hunting. Go ahead and call me stupid if it makes you feel better.

 

I dont think you guys realize that its all the same, you guys are just drawing the line at high fences but not tree stands, baiting, or dog hunting. I dont care that it's not called fair chase, it shouldn't be allowed in the record books as their genetics can be manipulated and allowed to grow far better in the high fence. Intelligent thought eh? What is it with you all, when you can't win an argument you go and call the other guy stupid? I understand you're frustrated as is everyone on this, I just don't understand how you guys can justify everything else but not high fence. Deer not allowed to escape? Sure but its alot hard to smell or see you in the stand isn't it? They can go 49,999.99 acres away from you in a 50k acre farm. Your "ease" isn't depending on them escaping away miles and miles as it is their ability to detect you and run the opposite way.

Definitely different, but ill argue that "ease" issue. Its all the same depending on the conditions of the environment you hunt in.

 

Your defense of high fenced in preserves seems limited to just the LARGE monster acreage ones, which I think any logical person would agree does create a more and more "fair chase" type feel and aspect to it. However, at some point you are still limiting the natural desires of the deer by removing the ability to walk, move or explore new terrain outside of the area; whether that's 50,000 acres or 100 acres (yes both extremes and more so exist). Did you know that a lot of the larger deer preserves are now micro chipping the deer so they can pinpoint them even easier for their clients...an extreme I know but another example of how you can't compare them to fair chase free ranging deer.

If it was apples to apples comparison with the wild than how can these places get away with charging the atrocious CEO type fees to come hunt them? AND GET IT?! There are outfitters everywhere that are free range that have guided for years and years that don't charge a 10th shoot even a 100th in some cases what preserves can and they may have more acreage under their name?!? Same thing huh?

You bring up record books...who cares what is elgible or not elgible I know I don't. That is a completely separate issue than just simply the debate over whether it is the same as free range hunting or if hunting is even the proper term.

You've ignored the concept of the higher rates (10x,20x,50x higher) than other hunting operations and ignored the fact the licenses aren't interchangeable proving they're aren't the same.

Why is it so hard for you to admit they are not the same? I've time and time again tried assisting you in defense of the operations, as I feel they have every right to do what they do and feed their families and what not...but the idea to compare what they do with what free range hunters do is not fair or respectful to the men and women hitting the field each year without thousands of dollars in their hand for a 2 day hunt nearly guaranteed to shoot a MONSTER buck.

Obviously this will lead no where, and you will respond to this post, but I for one am done until you want to have a logical all points discussed discussion. Ignoring certain aspects of the discussion only to re-hash what you wish is a lack of respect to my side of thinking. I for one never called you stupid like others, I never said you were wrong in your defense of them (sorry if you felt as such); we are each entitled to our opinion but one must be willing to re-evaluate our thoughts based on discussions and go from there. Blessings.

 

You stated that any intelligent being would think the way you do, that is indirectly stating I am stupid. I do understand there are extremes and yes I have been talking about big preserves, yes I do understand that they do sometimes microchip. I was never defending those.

They get away with charging more because they come out with huge racks, regular outfitters cant get as huge racks. What does it matter if the licenses are the same? Its like going back to compound and traditional bows and crossbows. They weren't allowed in before but now they are, does that mean that they were always bowhunting? Or do we just ignore history on that?

Just because a piece of paper states something does not take away from the underlying facts. Baiting is illegal on paper in some states, does that mean it's not hunting?

You can feel disrespected that is your right, I dont see how ive ignored your points but you can believe it as such. Thank you for assisting me in defending their operations, but that was never my intent. Im telling you it is all one and the same. Some places in the wild have a larger abundance of deer or turkeys than other places, do we say those places you dont hunt but "kill"? No. Do we say people who bait don't really hunt but kill? No. Do we say baiting is not fair chase? No. Tell me how hard it is to have dogs do all the work for you in tracking down an animal and killing it while it's treed? It's all relative and the same. You just ending up paying more at high fenced operations for bigger racks. I am again, like you stated limiting my self to the more legit high acreage, not the 100 acres.

 

I apologize for the point you made at the beginning of this post and while I'm still done discussing this, the above post did assist in my understanding of your view; whether I agree or not. Good luck this year.

 

I agree. I tried to get my points across and failed. I hope members learned from the debate though.

I would like to see a poll on here asking the members, if they think pursuing animals behind a fence is hunting?

Would anybody try to enter one of these in the contest on here?

 

Id like to see how people justify hunting with guides. Guides do all the tracking and then point out the animal for you to shoot. Hunting eh. They also guaranty that you will bag something, or some places give you money back/another free try next time. Frenchbritt you need to stop acting immature, and use the discussion, not the majority rules.

 

I think it would be great to see a poll of how many hunters consider your pastime hunting? It's not majority rules. It's just a simple poll to see how other hunters think.

 

You know how others think, just read the responses. Theres been like 1 of me and 50 of everyone else.

Again stop being immature and call this my "past time".

 

Sorry I called you stupid. I didn't intend to single anyone out, and shouldn't have resorted to name calling. It is obvious we have different opinions on the subject, and while I don't agree, I need to respect that.

The truth is that I can't see how you can rationally compare the two type of hunting as similar. Most of us on this site will hunt the entire season with the hopes of one chance at a nice deer. Not even a Monster, but just a Nice deer. Most of us on this site will not get that chance. Some will get lucky, and some will not. THAT IS HUNTING. NOT KILLING, BUT HUNTING.

Do you really think people would pay the big bucks to have those odds?? No. They come for a couple days, or a week, and EXPECT to harvest a trophy buck. Many times "or your money back".

How can you say the difficulty level is the same? You will argue the "ease" part all day? How?

 

Let's use your numbers.

Why does only 1 out of 50 believe animals being pursued behind a fence is hunting?

 

eh minnesota, thanks, but I was also probably getting too sensitive with EVERYONE against me in this argument.

In your location, your argument may be true, but what about those places which are overrun with deer or have an abdunance of them in the wild or their area? Is that not called hunting because you simply go out and shoot it?

Im saying "ease" is all dependent on your situation, methods and location. Does baiting make it any easier to hunt? Some would say yes. Does hunting with dogs make it easier to hunt? Some would say yes. Does hunting with guns make it easier to hunt? some would say yes. Is hunting in a treestand really hunting? You just stand up there all day and hope that one comes in range do you not?
How hard is it to shoot bear over bait in a treestand? Basically the animal comes to the bait and you're up in a treestand where all you do is point and shoot.

Your chances are increased in a high fenced hunt (depending on the high fenced hunt) and so are the racks and yes ill agree a portion of that money goes toward that increased guaranty. But is it any better or worse to pay more money to have a guaranty? Take for example, you go to theoretical Virginia where there are just tons of deer jumping around and the tags are $15. All you basically have to do is spot one and shoot it. How much more different is that than a high fenced hunt? All you did is you paid more for rack and a bit more of an guaranty that you would get one.

Im going a little off topic here, but I am trying to keep my defense to high acreage high fenced hunts. Not those 100 acres tame animals.

 

Read above. Also keep in mind a small minority once thought that slaves should be free. Keep in mind Christianity started out as a small minority.