Ya'lls opinions on high fence hunting or "whitetail preserves"

There are some more "legit" high fence operations that are just as hard as the wild. As for taking wild game or not manipulating genetics, the DNR already does that for you by limiting what you can kill. Hunters do that by feeding them food and baiting them. It has it's place. How many miles does a deer in it's lifetime travel? it's all relative and all are differnet based on the high fence operation. Also gotta take into account America is one of the last few places with free range hunting, places like Africa and New Zealand are high fence.

Some of you guys track deer as it grows from a child to adult, im pretty sure they're within a small acreage.

 

(1) There might be legal high fence areas, but it is not hunting it is farming.
(2) It can not be as hard as the wild, because it is not wild.
(3) You can not manipulate the genetics of wild animals.
(4) In my mind, it does not have it's place and a lot of people agree with me.
(5) The reason travel is relative is because a fence limits it and then it is not considered fair chase.
(6) You might want to research Africa. Not all of hunting in Africa is considered to be farming. Lots of Africa is fair chase. For those that want instant gratification or can't get it done the right way hunting, yes there is that option.
(7) The world is not mostly high fence hunting.
(8) You might want to research the range of a wild deer and how this works with genetics.

 

The deer I'm after's home range is well over 2000 acres.

 

Its not real hunting, that's for sure. I wouldn't hunt high fence or even with a guide.

 

1) I didnt mean legal, I meant where it is like the wild.
2) Of course it can be just as hard, there are 50k+ high fence operations. How would it be any easier? Because theres a larger abdunance of animals? Then you shouldn't hunt in certain areas if that is the case. Is it because they cant escape? Even if it weren't 50K+ high fence and it were 20k or 10k, they could easily escape you. So what is it?
3) Yes you can, you sure do when you pass them up or you pass quotas on how many you kill
4) And I understand
5) ok that is your opinion and I am not saying high fence should be considered fair chance by any means
6) You might want to research Africa too, SCI considers person places fair chase, but they are mostly all high fence operations
7) ok, seems like neither one of us will be providing stats on this.
8) So might you

As for Fitz, your 2000 acre deer, thats not much that can't be encompassed into a 50k+ high fence.

 

Many countries in Africa do not have high fence farming operations. Namibia, Zimbawi, Zambia, South Africa, etc are not all of Africa. The rest of Africa has very few high fence farming operations when you leave these areas. (Please remember South Africa is a country and does not refer to the southern portion.)

High fence farming operations are not considered fair chase. The reason there is a fence. Whether there is 50,000 acres or 50 acres, the purchaser of the farm animal can push the farm animals towards the fence or use this barrier to their advantage that can not be passed by the farm animals. Genetics, ethics and fair chase all end and begin with the presence of the high fence.

Once again genetics can not be controlled in a wild setting. They can be manipulated on very small levels, but can never be controlled to convey a certain outcome. This is one of my favorite articles on deer genetics: Why We Can't Manage Deer Genetics | Quality Deer Management Association

 

Where, outside of TX, can you find a private high-fenced area of that size?

 

I'll add that this deer does not eat beans, corn, hay or any man produced crop

 

Where is this "rest of africa?" Also keep in mind that SCI accepts those high fence operations. I dont understand how quotas, baiting, regulations to hunting, is not affecting genetics. You most certainly are.

Sure of course high fence can be used to push them toward some way, but like I stated, that is not all high fence operations.
Where do you draw the line on boundaries? A small island because it is a "natural barrier"? What about the farmers who allow only certain routes for deer to access? DNR and all those other regulatory agencies force you to hunt in certain areas, sure they can escape, but they can just easily go downhill or uphill from a fence in a high fence operation to escape the hunter. It is no different. What about a canyon? It's not a high fence but it sure is a barrier, so is a deep fast moving water stream.

Fitz, no answer to your question, im sure there are places in colorado and west that some that size. Again im not trying to state this should fall into fair chase. Im just saying that if you say this stuff is stupid or unethical, you should relook yourself in baiting, treestands and hunting with dogs.

High Fence Hunting by Ted Nugent - Shooters Forum Take a look at what Ted Nugent said in Field and Stream.

 

There are more than 50 countries in Africa.

SCI does accept those farm animals in their books. But lets be truthful, these farm animals are in a different section in the SCI book. I and many others think because of this, SCI is a joke. Try Pope & Young and Boone & Crockett.

Quotas affect populations. Baiting affects the health of the individual deer eating the bait. Regulations keep us legal and fair. Genetics can not be controlled in a wild setting. The article I provided above proves it to you.

Deer can cross a river. There are other routes around a canyon. Deer can swim to another island or piece of land. The fence they can not escape. Everything you mentioned is natural. The fence is man made and there to prevent the farmers flock from leaving so he can cash in on his herd. The farm animals can not go arouind or swim to a different spot they are trapped. The farmer has them trapped for the puchaser to claim their animal they payed for. It really is not hard to understand.

I find the process sickening, however it is legal in some areas. Please just don't refer to it as hunting, it's disrespectful to myself and others who put the time in.

 

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with these high fenced areas, but your making it seem like every one of these places have all these deer penned up as pets until someone shows up and says they want to shoot one. Are some like that probably, bit not all have these "pet deer" your referring to running around. You don't need a fence to hold a animal in a certain area. Can they escape sure but you can get the same effect with feeding or baiting. I kind of agree with JGD as to where you draw a line when disagreeing with the goal of these places. There are a couple upland bird hunting places around my area that raise birds then turn them loose when you show up, so is this the same. These birds are "farmed" so you can kill them. Or what about the outfitter that sets you up in the morning and says well this feeder turns on at 8 am so get ready. Or goes and runs deer to you without the help of a fence. Are either or those situation any more sporting.

Like said I don't agree or disagree with these types of places but theure not all these deer farms that turn pet deer out for you to kill. Many of them are ran just like any other outfitter where you'd have no problem goin to.

 

I'm a big fan of "fair-chase" hunting. Still I've done a few pheasant hunts where you call ahead and tell them how many birds to put out. Do I consider that a true hunt? No way. Do I enjoy myself when I'm out there? For sure. Do the pheasants taste good? You bet they do. That being said, bowhunting whitetails is "my thing" or "what I'm about". Would I ever for 1 second consider going to a high-fence ranch and kill a buck? No. Still, I'm not going to go crazy saying that high-fence operations are ruining hunting. I don't know the specifics of hunter numbers or anything, but I know that it seems like there are a LOT more hunters today than there were 16 years ago when I started hunting.

These people aren't breaking any laws by going to these places. If they want to lie to people about the method and location of their kill that's something they need to live with. Who really cares how many deer a person has "in the book". I've killed a bunch of deer that are pretty good, and all were fair-chase. I'll have them scored just for s***'s and giggles but it really doesn't matter to me. I guess it does to some people and if that's important to you, that's cool - lots of worse things go have be important to you. At the end of the day we still live in America and if someone isn't doing something to directly impact my life then I'm okay with it.

 

I think that "high fence hunting" completely takes away from the hunt and the challenge..... It makes it more of deer killing than deer hunting IMO

 

Hi, its hunting.

That article does not prove anything, go ahead and find excuses for how each time we artificially help deer out isn't affecting genetics but you're kidding yourself. Quotas affect populations that only lets the smartest ones survive the hunters, those are the ones who breed more. Pretty sure that is affecting genetics. I think its a joke that you would stand behind baiting and dog hunting and using overhead imagery, wearing all those camo clothes and try to distance yourself from high fence. Some high fence ill agree will be those places you go up and shoot, but there are legit operations. Sure you can say that many find SCI a joke, but I can find many that would disagree with you, that doesn't matter because we wont get anywhere with that argument.

It seems hard for you to understand that animals in a high fenced area with high acreage is no different than a certain small national park acreage, or farmer joe funneling kill points on his fenceline. Can deer really escape an island? Really? Regulations keep us legal and fair? Really? Is that why there is every state has the same laws? Fair? Times have changed are you saying that back in the 1800s animals were not caught fair? Never did see how fair it was to the buffalo who were ran off cliffs in the thousands by native americans. When you buy a tag, you dont pay for an animal? I think you do.

 

whats up new from Tennessee. I agree its not hunting at all. It shouldn't be legal. Its just rich people getting their jollies the easy way.

 

Are you saying that high fence hunting is no different? You are mistaken sir.



You see this deer ^ My buddy just sold it to a high fence operation for $15,000. It has been hand fed its entire life. Some bloke is going to pay 50 grand to shoot it.

Yea...hunting. Lol.

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They will most likely be paying to shoot it's offspring.

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You guys are totally missing my point. Not all high fence operations are like this and not all are on 100 or 50 acres.

 

I only consider it hunting if designated as such by a normal state hunting license. If it takes a special license or is exempt from state license fees, and you pay the business for the right to kill the animal (as is the case with all the ones I've known of, granted that's probably less than 10) it's not hunting to me. These places charge an insane amount of money because the deer are easier to kill, typically due to smaller area but not always, tracking methods of the deer but again not always, incredible baiting schedules that bring the deer in but not always. I say if you want to go into the business, so be it. Stay within the legal boundaries of the state you're operating in and have a blast making money on guys willing to pay the ridiculous fees it takes.

I just have a major problem when places act, and yes it's an act, like it's 100% apples to apples with regular free range hunting. If it was, then no one would pay the amount they do. These operations thrive on the simple fact it is easier to hunt, easier to "grow" or buy HUMUNGOUS bucks and the ease at which it typically is to put guys on the deer of their choice.

 

Ill agree because they can mess more with genetics they will get more gianormous bucks, however, the "ease" part is the part I am debating. Not all high fenced operations are created equal. There are natural boundaries in the wilderness. Is this term "hunting" boundary drawn at a high fence yet not at baiting, using dogs, infrared, topography maps, scent blockers, funneling, "kill plots"?

Or when you use the term "ease" where is that line drawn? Take for example places that have 16 turkeys per square mile and other places that have 1 turkey per square mile. Is the location with 16 Turkeys not hunting and just killing since all you do is walk in and shoot? No, it is still "hunting" because it was in the "wild". This "ease" term shouldn't be applied to all high fence operations because they are all not the same, and not all places receive deer which have been homegrown and sold for $15k.