Ya'lls opinions on high fence hunting or "whitetail preserves"

French,

I respect your opinion even if I do not agree with it. Your efforts to place all situations, locations, individuals, etc in the same pigeon hole must be drudging. You cannot judge a book by another's cover. It's like saying a swing in a fenced school yard is less enjoyment to a child than a swing without a fence. Is this really true when the only difference between the swings is their proximity to the fence?

If fencing "We the people's wildlife" and claiming ownership were legal (anywhere), how long do you think it would take for people to own herds? This was exactly one of the reason behind our seperation from european gentry. It seemed, then, access to the King's deer was difficult to come by. Moreover, this is perhaps the main reason we have our current North American game model. Fencing, among other things, denies access not to wildlife but rather the public. My eland, fallow deer, elk and your coon/squirrel examples are case and point (a fence of any size will not hinder a cougar, bobcat, pig, fox, weasel, etc).

I have had the pleasure of hunting free range deer in Illinois. My first attempt netted a 150 class buck and a doe in a matter of two days. My second attempt netted a 152 class buck (after seeing over forty) in another two days. I hope you can see how my experiences with deer in your state seems like kid's play.

My first attempt in South Dakota took four hours
My attempt in Wyoming took six hours
Seven hours in Ohio...
Six in Kentucky
Four in New york
Seven in Oklahoma
Eight in Pennsylvania...took several days in North Carolina and I never saw a mature buck (I found this hunt challenging-never mind the busted ankle).

I went to the artic and hunted free range musk ox for four hours. It took me longer to get there!
I shoot my first moose in less than four hours of hunting, my caribou within an hour of arriving in Quebec...all free range.

It took me nine multi-day attempts to arrow an axis deer on an 800 acre ranch in Texas. I never got any money back for the eight failed tries. So the dribble I read here is just that.

I believe Craig Boddington summed it up best when he wrote, "It must be one of the vagaries of human nature to insist on quantifying the unquantifiable." Wouldn't it be easier if we just hunt and let hunt? Why must we always compare? I mean, does it really have the possibility of changing human nature? I think not. The "this verses that" only tears us apart...

We can agree to disagree. My advice though, make your assessments at journey's end and never before. You might be surprised.

Happy hunting my friend! A goat awaits me!

 

Sir I respect your opinion and loved the debate.

Knowing that it is illegal to shoot wildlife in Illinois behind a high fence, ends my passion for the debate. I don't know why it took me so long to figure that out.

You sound very successful with your adventures and I wish you well.

 

So how are the high fenced operations getting by in illinois with their whitetail hunts if it's illegal? Are they saying they are domesticated?

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We had one close to where I live that tried passing it off as they were just breeding them. I can't say what really happened with all that, apparently nothing good since they're shut down.

 

They have to purchase permits from the department of agriculture.

DNR confirmed for me today that it is illegal to kill wildlife in Illinois behind a high fence. Before the fence is erected any wildlife that can not climb or fly must be removed.

 

Are the permits for animals. Are they buying pin raised animals and turning them loose for harvest?

There are high fenced operations killing whitetail right now.




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Illinois may have changed their laws since I watched the ""hunting" show but in that show they were chasing whitetail with rifles in illinois and claimed it was legal because it was a high fenced operation.

Here it is

http://www.samsonsridge.com/faq.html

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just farm raised deer not hunters the animal should have no boundaries

 

It is legal to kill farm raised deer in Illinois behind a high fence.
It is illegal to kill wild deer behind a high fence in Illinois.

There really is no room to debate the subject in Illinois.

 

Are you seriously asking the legalities? Because baiting, hunting with dogs, trapping are illegal somewhere. If it were completely legal, why is it illegal?

 

It is highly illegal to kill a fair chase wild deer in Illinois behind a high fence. You would be arrested.

You can however, completely remove all of the wildlife, purchase a high fence and get a permit from the department of agriculture to shoot pen raised deer.

 

And your ok with this but not shooting wild deer behind a fence of a large parcel of land.

Interesting

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In Illinois farming is farming and hunting is hunting. There is no debate about fair chase behind a high fence, because it is illegal.

I would assume no one wants to try and debate the fair chase of a pen raised animal like a cow, pig or pen raised deer.

I would love to know the laws in the rest of the country, but in Illinois it is illegal to kill a wild deer behind a high fence.

 

Interesting, Baiting is illegal in other states, does this mean it is not fair chase?

 

In Illinois baiting is illegal 24/7 all days of the year. In Illinois baiting is not fair chase.

I was here to debate high fences and I have no further need once I discovered it is illegal to kill a wild deer in Illinois behind a fence.

 

I didn't read the whole thread and not sure if anyone else said it. I watched the video that was posted. And yes I don't agree with a 120 acre farm fenced. But that being said I've been to a place in Florida that was 3500 acres. 12 miles of fence. That I felt was ok. And I would never go there for a white tail or something I can hunt at home. For me it was for a exotic hunt like buffalo and axis deer. Do I agree that someone who got a wild one in the animals natural home would be more of a feat then mine? Yes I do. But that doesn't take away from my kill with a bow on both animals. I hunted for 5 days and both kills were harder then most would expect. Guides themselves told me I was super lucky to get both those kills in that time and the trophy they were. In my eyes 3500 acres is so big unless your near the edges these animals probably don't even ever go to the fence or know they are fenced.

Another example up here our elk population was just re introduced in Ontario. So tags are totally not realistic. Last yesr there was 20 tags province wide. But in quebec there is a 10,000 acre preserve for elk. If I could spend $8000 I would go no problem. It's a one week hunt and on 10,000 acres??? None of us hunt 10,000 acres.

So my final opinion I think a fenced hunt can be done right and wrong. 120 acre deer farm hell no. You can see that whole farm in one view. 3500 acres??? Different in my opinion. Either way its your own choice.

 

It's as much about the animals as it is the size of the fenced in area. In Illinois it is illegal to kill wild fair chase animals behind a fence, so automatically you know you are trying to shoot a farm animal that is pen raised. In Illinois if you had 75,000 acres fenced in with a high fence, it is still only legal to kill farm animals.

I would look into the other places you are talking about and see if you are pursuing farm animals or not.

 

Who can determine wild or farm animals? The place in Florida I went to obviously had to bring animals in as water buffalo and axis deer are not natural to Florida. But he said he hasn't added a single animal in over 15 years. The animals breed and thrive on their own in this 3500 acre property. He also controls the limit of kills as well to maintain help thy populations. Again were talking 3500 acres.

In Illinois were talking 120 acre farms. How many deer could you possibly have on that land? Living on their own wild food supply not very many. So yes those animals are brought in annually because every year there clients kill them all. In Florida I never hunted over bait once. It was watering holes, travel corridors and food plots. The axis buck I shot from a tree stand over a large pond that grew tons of vegetation. The water buffalo we stalked deep into the thick what I would call jungle. Florida has too much palms and snacks to be called the woods lol.

And the property in Quebec is literally a entire mountain. 10,000 acres and yes elk were stalked there I believe in the 70's. and now I a thriving population. There are probabaly well over1000 elk out there. If he sells 200 customers as maybe 120 kill. He didn't even make a dent into his herds. But again 100 acre deer farm is different. I could wipe that out alone in a week. Just keep walking in circles until you pin them in a corner. It's a joke I know.

 

So people who bait, are not "hunting" and those who get animals with baiting should not be allowed on the record books? This is applicable to high fences.

 

The difference between a wild animal and a farm animal is determined by the department of agriculture and the department of natural resources. If you are pursuing an animal and the farmer needed a permit from the department of agriculture you are pursuing farm animals. If a farm animal is born behind a fence (even without human intervention) its offspring is still controlled by the department of agriculture and is a farm animal. Many farm animals are born behind a fence and they are not deemed wild because of no human intervention.

The combination of a high fence and farm animals is not the way to go in my opinion.