I can honestly say I don't see LW being a top contender much longer. The originator of the LW (Andrea) has kept his patent and started making XOP stands with better I-beams and soon the sticks will look the same. Giving LW several years to invent something else while they kept the patent with the name produced nothing for the company. Hence why the new stands look like muddy tree stands. I've had the pleasure to handle and sit in one of the new XOP stands and all I can say is.... there's going to be trouble in making for LW. XOP stands come standard with the huntmore seat and are a lot cheaper.... kind of hard to beat that for the everyday hunter. Hang On Stand: XPS Silver Series Medium Hang-On
Rutin - Are you affiliated with XOP? Your story on XOP and Lone Wolf isn't really accurate. If you are representing them in some way you may want to clarify things a bit. Much of the current XOP product was previously manufactured for and then rejected by Lone Wolf due to quality issues. It is not US made product, my understanding is that it was all manufactured in China before Lone Wolf switched things back to 100% US based. I have a set of the sticks that were part of the current production run now being sold by XOP and the aluminum on the step is so soft that it has started to malform around the stop peg. It's bad enough that I'm concerned the step may swing all the way around. Imagine that happening 20' up in the dark. Lone Wolf has issued me a return number to fix the problem with their new run of US made sticks that don't have this problem. As of today Lone Wolf is making everything in the USA. I find it kind of ironic that a few years ago Lone Wolf tries to have some of their production done in China and everyone screams bloody murder about it not being made in USA. Now XOP is selling that very same China made production run product and because they have handed out staff positions left and right it's the best thing ever.
Here's one thing I've always wondered about the Lone Wolf "rejected" stands. How did some make it to the stores? I bought two of the Chinese made stands from Scheels back in whatever year they were available. I also bought two sets of the Chinese made sticks. If LW rejected these stands and sticks because of inferior quality, how did they get on store shelves? Was a second shipment only rejected after the public outcry? I could buy the story about poor quality, had they not made it to store shelves. Those stands had to be assembled at the LW headquarters before being shipped out. Did they knowingly ship out poor quality stands? I used to be on the LW company bandwagon, but once you look at it with and unbiased view, it seems the truth never really came out.
Here's what I gather. XOP bought the remaining LW Chinese stands and is closing them out. This winter they were selling the equivalent of the Alpha at shows for $139. They are also designing and going to be selling their own cast aluminum stands as well, much cheaper than the LW. From what I hear, the equivalent to the Alpha will be $199.
If I remember correctly, a good part of that was a recall. Stores aren't always super proactive about sending things back for recalls. I used to work at a Gander Mountain, and the couple of times we had to deal with recalls, it took a while for anything to get done about it (if anything ever did). As in we had defective treestands from Ameristep that had to be recalled for safety hazards, and it took us a month to even realize we had those stands, and they only got sent back because it was 2 weeks until shotgun opener and they were in an ad. The Chinese stands and sticks you got may be an oversight of LW, or that may be on Scheels. I do know that LW was pretty good about taking the Chinese products back and sending American stuff if you contacted them.
My thoughts are purely speculation Dan as I'm not affiliated with anyone and paid full price for all my stuff. I'm guessing after a bunch of it hit the shelves and the calls/emails started pouring in.......they realized it was a problem. I have one of the Chinese made stands (sit & climb) and don't have any problems with it. The sticks took a couple seasons of hard use to see the problem I now have though. I really don't think a problem like that would have been found through a little testing, it took a lot of real use to show up.
It's a fairly simple explanation. When you're getting product manufactured in China you typically receive sample products to verify they meet your standards, design is correct, etc. You then sign off on the product being made and the manufacturer moves forward. In many cases, not just LW's case, the product that ends up coming back in bulk isn't quite the same as the original product you approved for production. In many cases the product is made overseas, sent over on ships and then housed at a distribution facility that fills orders as they come in. So the company selling the product never actually sets eyes or hands on it. They rely on their business partners who are doing the sourcing work to make sure it's all correct. In the LW case that didn't happen and unfortunately their name took a hit when sub-par product hit the shelves. When they figured out the extent of the problem they stopped shipping product but that didn't change the fact that much of it hit the shelves already. To correct Rutin's statements, Lone Wolf's patent wasn't "kept" it simply expired. This is simply the nature of a patent - you only get exclusive rights to it for so long. So yes, other companies can come out and rip off their products and sell them for less. It happens all the time in every market there is. Nothing new there. Like anything in life you get what you pay for. If you want the best high-quality American-made stand that you can get, go with Lone Wolf Alpha series. If you want to save a few bucks then buy the China-made imitations. Ultimately the choice is yours.
Yes, the steps on the sticks were soft aluminum and sucked. But, they never pulled the product from the shelf, just sold what they had and rejected more shipments. Sure they may not have known about the soft aluminum on the steps, but they handled, assembled, packaged and shipped the stands with the poor platforms. Did they not have samples of these stands before ordering them? Now this is purely educated speculation, but I suspect they rejected the shipments because of public outcry over them having stands made in China, the poor quality was a convenient excuse.
So, the pictures LW posts on FB of assembling stands themselves isn't what really happens? They don't actually have stacks and stacks of stands waiting to be shipped out in their own warehouse, like they show on FB? Serious questions.
Look, I own a Lone Wolf Alpha II and set of stick and they are clearly the best stand and sticks I've ever had. They were also twice as expensive as any other setup I've ever had. From what I have seen, XOP liquidated the Chinese manufactured Lone Wolfs at a much reduced price, but have already developed their new design and will be selling those. I do not know where they are being manufactured, but my guess is not in the USA. I'm pretty sure Muddy's are also made in China. Unfortunately it's the world we live in and we have to pay a premium to get a product that is made here. I guess it is what it is.
The key part of that is samples. It's easy enough to get a good sample batch. Companies have an interest in making sure the samples are top notch. Handling all the stands is a different beast entirely. I am not sponsored by LW and have no vested interest in the company, but I think they handled themselves pretty well in that whole situation. Their product still speaks for itself (and is currently made in the USA), and in my experience they actually have fantastic customer service. If XOP is made in the US and is at a lower price, I may give them a shot. If they are made in China, or some other place, then I think the lesson was learned the first time around when LW tried that.
That's how the stands are made today, not how they were made several years ago when the issue with China manufacturing happened. When they had an issue with the foreign stands they decided to bring everything back to the states and to their facility so they had better control of quality so this wouldn't happen again. Today the stands are cast and assembled in Peoria, IL.
To have a new overseas manufacture make your product for you and trust them enough to go directly from china to the shelf strikes me as an insane business decision. At the very least you have to have a QC department randomly checking their work by inspecting some of the stands.
I guess I should clarify. It makes sense for the steps, but not the stands. So, they never saw the finish on the stands that were mass produced before they hit the store shelves themselves? Not one of those stands touched their hands before they walked into the local Cabela's store and touched one on the display?
XOP has also Signed and exclusive contract with ****'s sporting goods for the 2014 hunting season. I was told by Cody D'Acquisto that they had signed a deal with them just before the Deer and Turkey Classic in Il, last year. Not sure if he was blowing smoke up me or not.
Rick James - NO I am not affiliated in ANY way, simply know several guys on the pro staff. So my info comes straight from the source itself. Dan - I own several Chinese stands as well, most of them were merely blemish stands with slack/slag on them and didn't have a clean finish, I bought them for about a third of the price. Justin - The patent stayed with LW when it was purchased from Andrea, my understanding is that the patent expired last year and Andrea bought his patent back. He allowed LW to keep the patent with the company for 3+ years, allowing them time to invent something new of their own, which they did not. I wouldn't really say he "ripped them off bc the patent expired", considering it was "his" design and patent. I do know what you mean about other companies though. Most of the Chinese manufactured stands that XOP bought back were given to the pro staff as sample stands. You could also purchase a stand from an expo at a discounted rate being aware they were Chinese blemish stands, no real faults. The actual stand they will sell will have a green powder coating and a lot cleaner finish. They are currently trying to make the sticks look like their new I-beam but from what I've heard that added 1lb to each stick. If you know anything about Andrea there is NO way he was going to let that happen so he was trying to cut weight and add strength. I believe the new "Alpha" or Silver series will be $189-$199, which would be $300 for a LW Alpha and Huntmore Seat if comparing apples to apples.
