Would you give up a little KE for a bit more speed?

I spotted one fox at 55 yds, stalked to 25yds. He/she didn't move until the arrow hit the dead tree limbs behind him/her.

 

I don't see anyone bent out of shape. Matter of fact some of us said he would be just fine with the light arrow, none of us said he shouldn't use it.

Will, no one has said, in this thread anyway, not to use a light, fast arrow. Some of us are just talking about our preference for heavy and why. It seems you are trying to convince us it won't work and you keep coming up with scenarios where it shouldn't work. I am sure there are scenarios where it won't work but, for the most part, the heavy arrow will work in 90% of situations all most all of us will encounter. Your experiences put you in the 10%.

I do not try and convince anyone on what arrow configuration they should use but, if I am asked my preference, I state heavier and why. I have had PM's asking me to help them with their arrow and I have helped light and fast more than I have helped heavy and slow. I don't really care what anyone uses, I try to worry about myself at this age and that is enough work right there :D .

I wish everyone good fortune in their upcoming hunts whether they are using light, medium or heavy.

 

LOL you beat me to it. This has been one of the nicer conversations I have been involved in on this subject.

 

I did not say anyone is out of line... I only meant that some guys can be very opinionated on this subject and try to prove their point (one way or the other) even though what the OP was asking would still perfectly acceptable in his scenario.

This debate is as old as archery forums :p

 

This reply is more what I was referring to when I made that reply. Not on the content of this one so much but for the overall negativity I have read in these threads over the years.

 

No disagreement there. If this thread had turned into one of those I would have bowed out by now but since it has been more of exchanging information and thoughts it has been enjoyable and I have kept participating. But, yeah, usually these threads go bad, sometimes very quickly.

 

Absolutely!

 

Thanks guys for the candor and the friendship. These are the very things I try to give when I engage myself in this type of debate. What a wonderful learning experience!

Bruce, I think you and I are more alike than apart on this matter. But for the record, my position all along has been one of flexibility...recognize the variables and adapt accordingly. I point the various scenarios out because all too often people turn their personal experience into gospel. The only thing gospel about bow hunting is "it ain't gospel". Rarely do people ask the whens, wheres, whys, and hows anymore. It's this way and no other way, as many say! Assumptions are made. I'll be the first to admit I'm guilty of this! When I saw Jay was from Alberta (land of lions, wolves,and bears), and that he was hunting deer and elk, I assumed he would be doing so using spot and stalk tactics (it's what my mind expects with I see the word elk). Many others assumed he was going to be hunting from a treestand. Not one of us asked how he was hunting, where he was hunting, or when he was hunting. From my experience, those questions make a difference...we're better informed to give better advice.

If I try to convince people of anything it's, "Get out there and hunt! Try anything and everything, learn, and have fun doing it!"

Speed goats next year?

Cheif, I just can't do it. I honestly do not know whether "quiet" is an attribute or a detriment. When I hunt, I expect noise to happen and try to mask it the best I can-wherever I am. I wish I had access to the spectrum of sounds deer hear...which ones cause fright and which cause the most pleasure (we could sell this and become bazillionaires). I'll give you this, I doubt the deer in Tennessee know what it sounds like to have a wolf crunching bones.

Same offer to you....?

Steve buddy, you are the man! You definitely went above and beyond by phoning your pops! I wish I could have been on the line with the two of you! I have one last question for you. Does your father consider himself Heavy/slow/lucky or light/fast/lucky? LOL....he's too modest!

 

That's an easy one to answer Cheif. For the most part I try to mask noise and thus my presence. However I have on many occasions used noise to my benefit. I was in New Zealand a few year back, for example. I had feral pigs below me in some pretty thick jungle. I could hear them but couldn't see them. They were close-maybe twelve yards at the most. The cover was extremely thick. I was struggling to find a shot and feared moving any closer (my perception of hogs is they're pretty dangerous when threatened). I figured I had nothing to lose and everything to gain by throwing a rock up and over the pigs. The stone crashed through the brush on the opposite side of the pigs. They were startled by the noise and ran towards me. A few stopped and stared in the direction of the sound. A nice boar gave me a pefect broadside shot at seven yards. I did the same thing to a dall sheep in Texas, a black bear in Alaska, and a mule deer here in Colorado. So I guess quiet can be an attribute or a detriment depending on how you apply it. Have you ever used calls? Are they an asset or a liability? Have you ever used a doe bleat to stop a buck? A whistle to stop a yote?

 

Nice little trick, Will.

Reminds me of another one I read a looong time ago by Cardeer on the old forum when it was still quite small..

He was hunting just off a bedding area and past a spot where the main trail he was wanting to hunt forked off in two separate directions; he could cover only one.

He took off a sweaty sock and hung it slightly down the one path he couldn't cover, thus incentifying the deer to backtrack and use the trail he overlooked.

 

I'd call that an excellent adaption Greg. Isn't it great, us old dogs can still learn new tricks? I file that one into my little bag. Thanks for sharing.

 

Gary,
I'd tend to agree. Too many guys really have NO IDEA what they are buying, they just know it's supposed to be FAST!!! Most here are a bit more educated, but the AVERAGE JOE ain't got a good clue....

I'd agree Will, the GAME we are hunting certainly makes a big difference. I don't think there are too many guys who'd take a 350gr arrow and try to shoot a Water Buffalo unless he had a death wish.......


I'm sort of the ODD guy out as far as setting bows up. MOST guys will set pins at 20-30-40..... I generally will set my first pin at 22-25yds, depending on the set-up, and my second may be anywhere between 30-33yds.....

Do animals move...???? Oh you bet they do. but I think a lot of exaggerated string jump is at relatively closer distances, say under 35, rather than over 35yds.

Sadly, too many guys think bows are like rifles with FLAT TRAJECTORIES, and that just ABSOLUTELY is NOT TRUE!!!!

 

I have been fortunate to kill quite a few deer with my bow. We have alot of deer and can kill alot of deer here in GA. I have also been apart of several permit hunts where the deer were like rats and your only instructions were to shoot every deer you saw, so I have witnessed quite a few different reactions. All that said, to get to the picture. You can see the hole right in front of his hind quarter, that is the exit. This deer was directly broadside, coming from left to right, in that mid 20's yardage that we all love, I was 18' up in a pretty large oak. He had to clear alot of low hanging branches, limbs, etc before he entered the shooting lane. I was at full draw 10 seconds before he even entered the opening. He had no idea I was there until I was dropping the string. Movement, 6th sense, whatever you want to call it, but at the very moment I released that deer looked up and whirled. My arrow hit him directly behind the front shoulder, tucked up real nice and pretty like you want it, went through and stuck in the ground. You can see the exit. Now the kicker is the deer whirld away from me, meaning his head went from 3 o'clock, to 12 and then to 9 and that is the direction he ran off, the way he originally came from. For that deer to whirl quick enough to have the arrow hit him pretty much squared up, and not get out of his 2' wide body before he got all the way around just blew my mind. I shoot a 300FPS set up. I may not have fully realized how fast they are that day, because I am unsure that can be fully grasped when happening live and in color, but I did realize that 300 FPS ain't nothing if your mind set is soley to out run their reflexes (IMO). I always knew it, but that was "MY" first time being able to disect, in person and hands on where that arrow went in that impossible amount of time. Hope all that bable made some sort of sense.

To answer the OP's question, no.

 

No one can debate that Chief. This was my point from the beginning of this thread. A few weeks back at a traditional shoot 6 of us drove down and spent the day flinging arrows and having a blast. My brothers longbow he made from a kit 18 years ago Is the quietest bow I've ever heard hands down. If you didn't see him shoot there's no way In hell any of us would even know he shot. I guarantee that quiet bow Is an advantage for him. Here's the bad part, the bow blew up 2 days ago while hanging In his porch In the house. It's now retired.

I've hunted with compounds, I've hunted with traditional bows. I've been on both sides of the fence here. It hasn't happened In this discussion for the most part but what I sometimes don't understand with discussions like this Is why do people who shoot light set ups get edgy when people suggest using a heavier set up? Most of the time these light set up hunters have never even tried a heavier set up but yet they get all defensive. I say experiment with It before you get all defensive. Most of the people who've shot heavy set ups have also shot the lighter set ups so they've got the knowledge and expierence to base their Info and decisions on. Another thing too, the term "heavy" Is vastly different from one to the next from what I've saw on these forums. I know this much that "heavier set ups" are making their way back Into the compound world which I think Is a good thing.

Good discussion all.

Will,

I'm all about an antelope hunt. Lets do It!!!

 

Isn't IBO a bi-product of KE or PE? With KE or PE, you wouldn't have velocity? Just thinkin out loud...