No.. MONEY made the difference. Outfitters moved in.. and started throwing money around. Don't pretend you know more about Illinois than I do. Minnesota and Michigan have moronic DNR's.. that's your problem. In Illinois the mindset is enough to let deer grow. Talk to any "gomer" hunter in the central part of the state and they won't even consider shooting it unless its 150" or more inches with a gun. It's just the way they are. Not to mention all the outfitted 1,000's of acres that are managed for 140's or bigger. So yeah.. it still has little to do with our gun-season. The only time the gun season here see's smaller bucks getting killed is when out-of-staters come in. And even then they get fined for doing it on outfitter land. I'm sorry.. but its our mentality here. And the MONEY.
I think the issue is...BIG vs. MATURE. Big is relative. Mature is Mature. A big one around here would be a 3.5 - 4.5yo ....coming in at 110"+/-. Out in the midwest, the typical 2.5yo comes in bigger than our MATURE "big" deer. So the guys here killing 80" 2.5yo bucks....if they were in the big buck states would likely be killing borderline P&Y candidates, with chances at lucking into a real slammer. If you are a decent hunter, and hunt on a fairly regular basis....you should have a chance at 2.5's each season wherever you are. The difference is...if you live in the big buck mecca....your trophy wall has a bunch of 120-130" deer....and here (or in non-big buck states) you have basket 6&8's. Is that midwest 2.5yo whacker with a few P&Y's to his name a better hunter than GMMAT? In the public's eye (based on his trophy wall and pics) yes....but I say No way. I agree that most people can't kill MATURE bucks every year, regardless of where they live. I envy the ones that do....you are doing what MOST hunters can't. Lots of them are on this board. I'm not that good, and may never be. But again, big is relative.....mature is mature.
Um.. so anyhow. For me 1 & 2 and then #8. Having to drive 125 miles round trip to hunt limits my time afield. I have chickens and a dog to feed and look after. Work to do. A little bit of sleep is nice every now and then. The other hunters certainly add a challenge. I try to stay pretty far away from them... try. There's no shortage of decent bucks where I hunt, however they're constantly getting bumped around by the other hunters so patterning them is tough. Add in all the people in and around the park makes it entertaining as well. Yesterday morning I had a truck drive by 3 times and honk as passed by. I don't think he could see me.. he was just honking as he passed the hunter parking areas. On Saturday, one hunting zone (a smaller one) was full with 6 hunters in it. Shortly after sunrise a park visitor came in and started singing and dancing in the center of the zone. LOL! (funny to me because I wasn't hunting that day).
Please exclude Colorado. At .07 wdpsm (the benefit of the doubt) you have a better chance of killing a moose with a rock. Muleys are a whole nother ballgame. Good conversation guys. Some excellent points made by everyone. Serious about the elk Duke. ICall, next time I'm in the area (hopefully next year), we'll get together...the Sullivan boys come out to hunt elk about every year. If you want an intro for that hunt, I will hook you up. Good luck Christine, I have you on my dream team-bringing down a 130 incher.Stay after it!
One word..... AWESOME. Many people in our state would suddenly believe that we really do have great genetics. LMAO! WV Hunter, If you have 40 acres that you have Total control over and can use 100% for deer hunting then you can shoot a decent buck every year if you are extremely careful on how you hunt it and if you micro manage it properly.
Wow what an exhausting read that was.. ! I pick #11... I'm still learning..I hope I never stop. Someone made the point of finding the bigger bucks in your area and gaining permission to hunt them. That's the avenue I moved towards in recent years. Even my buck this year. It was killed on Public land, but it's a long. sweaty. nasty, hike to get there, especially with a climber and bow. I gained permission to cross private land to reach the spot, cutting the travel time in half and eliminating most of the competition. (who wouldn't make the hike or the effort) It's not easy... here, there or anywhere. Would we all be so defensive and edgy if it was??
Bucks which are allowed to age in MN should grow just about as big as anywhere in the US. I have never knowingly seen a 2.5 yr old buck that would make P&Y. I would say most of them are in the the 80-110 range. I'm not saying it doesn't happen...just that it would be very rare. Here is a trail cam pic of a 2 1/2 yr old (IMO) which is representative of this area
There are far less than 80% killed in southern Michigan. Many bucks are not getting shot because of lack of access. Where I traditionaly hunted 95%-98% of the bucks have been killed in most years. Places like the U.P. and Southern Michigan are around 50%. I think thats part of why they can come up with such a low number of yearlings (62%) being killed. I think where most people hunt public land it is around a 80%+ yearling kill and almost all 2 1/2 years olds are killed on these heavily hunted public lands. Also, more deer will help produce more mature deer. For example, if a given area has 20 deer psm and 80% of the yearling bucks are killed, it leaves you with 4 yearling bucks to move on and possibly make it to maturity. However, if you have 100 deer psm and 80% of the yearling bucks are killed, it leaves you with 20 yearling bucks to move on and possibly make it to maturity. In this scenario you are bound to end up with more mature bucks in the area. Just look at counties like Jackson, Washtinaw, etc. Loads of deer and lots of BIG bucks.
I agree 100% that MN has the genetics. Just look at the record books from back when there were more mature deer and better food (such as from logging). There were a lot of Monsters comming out of there. It was arguably the best place to go in the country for a time.
Well then they have to make past 2.5:D Look at it this way, Iowa shoots a higher % of their deer herd then we do and Minn. Iowa has less habitat then both MI and Minn, Iowa has less deer. If you were going after mature buck where would you go? MI Minn Iowa More deer does not = better mature buck hunting, hell Jeff has more deer than any of us, how many has he seen? Jeff this is not a slam, just a point some think more deer = better big buck hunting. All my buddies hunt the golden triangle here in MI. We are talking 85-105 DPSM. Not one has a mature buck on the ground for archery. I have 11-15 DPSM and have seen 2 and shot 1. Some think I am nuts but I will take 11-15 DPSM with a decent buck to doe ratio and 3 or 4 bucks over or equal 3.5 over what Jackson county has now. If you put hunters in each area for ten years, I bet the guy hunting the lower DPSM beats the guy hunting 85-105.
I just wanted to point out my faulty math here. Obviously all the deer psm are not going to be bucks, but you guy's get picture.
1. More time in the woods YES BIG TIME 4. being in better physical shape 5. Having more big bucks in your area Maybe guess I don't know until I get better- see #7 7. You don't know exactly how to hunt for them somewhat...... Still learning but I feel I have some good technichs. 8. other hunters Not too bad but does effect it a little 9. not enough land to hunt I don't need more land. I need better land with more woods (instead of 95% open field) better access points, etc.
One more comment on this. Can you imagine the tourist dollars if they did this state wide?! And with the millions of acres of public land we have? OMG!!! Our state is so money hungry and only care about the deer herd to make money. To bad they are not smart enough to see past their nose and realize how much more money they could get by doing somthing like that. Michigan would become THE destination spot for head hunters. OK, I'm done dreaming now.
Are you saying MI needs more deer to have better mature buck hunting? If so, I disagree. MI hunters kill enough deer every year, they just kill the wrong ones.
Sure, when other states didn't have deer. Even most counties in the southern half of the LP didn't have deer hunting when that photo was most likely taken.
Maybe I can actually kill a big buck then. Do the headlights work? That will really increase my odds.
I didn't say that. Just that I didn't agree with Germ that more deer can't make a difference. As far as us having enough deer, we have a lot of deer as a state, but you have to look at the distribution and the hunting pressure. The southern third of the L.P. has more deer than the rest of the state combined. We need more in some parts of the state and waaaay less in other parts. It just depends on where you are able to hunt. I agree with you. The main problem is we are shooting the wrong ones! Michigan has some AWESOME hunting! But most of it sucks!! I can drive 6-10 hours to get to some good public land hunting with 6-11 deer psm, but if I'm going to do that I might as well go to Ohio, Indiana, etc. where the hunting is better.
