In the Full Circle dvd Todd mentioned hunting only travel routes to kill mature/big bucks...I think this may be my problem. Im never looking for that. Im always looking for food first, then the droppings, then the rubs... and lastly trails leading in. But what I seem to do is set up on food (oaks) and wait. This usually allows me to see deer and once and a while a decent 100-120" buck will come in..but I know there are many bucks in my hunting area that are bigger. What do I need to look for when it comes to travel routes for these caliber bucks? Do I need to ignore the rubs, droppings, food sources and just hunt the travel routes even if there is little sign? It seems the more I read the more the experts say that hunting terrain is more productive than sign. what do you say?
Thanks, I need a moment to digest that...but it's making sense. I have in all my hunting areas bucks in the 130-150 range that I never see, I know they are there, they get hacked in gun season every year...bow season is the best time to get them..I see their rubs all over, but never lay eyes on them..What I typically do is find the oaks, and then find the ones with the most sign around them and set up in or close by. As I said, I kill "deer" and sometimes a decent buck (100-115) but not "the deer".. there are so many other big bucks that I don't see. I guess what you are saying is to keep locating those areas that I hunt, just get in between that and the bedding areas and maybe use some type of terrain to find the travel routes of the bigger bucks? Are you saying that the bigger deer will use a different path to get to the same location as other deer?
So I find a string of good rubs and can pretty much bank on him being in "his" core area or really close? (pre rut) I have found spots with several good rubs within an acre.. And mature bucks are using terrain and landscape more so than trails? Now, what if I don't see your typical pinch or ridge or creek etc....what do I look for that lets me know there is some sort of terrain change that he will use? Could it be simple terrain break between types of trees? or does need to be a low ditch, point, ridge, pinch etc...
I've read that rubs or "signposts" normally signify a buck's travel corridor and they usually lead into/from his sanctuary. Landon...glad you brought up the subject. I'm interested in reading everyone's responses.
So...lets say you gain access to a new property in the summer. Do you go looking for old scrapes and rubs or are you focused on something else?
Im not trying to make it hard, it just is hard. Easier said than done. Thanks for your input Gri22ly. and Jeff. keep this going.
I personally have given up on rubs and scrapes, they have never really produced for me, eye candy is all I can call it... I possibly don't know how to hunt these "signs" and this is why I have little luck??? But I think most of this activity is during nightfall??!!.. Anyhow... As Gri22ly indicated, here is my little twist, as he has helped me with a little topo coaching/scouting to put me into the zone, read on... I like the food as #1a, which coincides with #1b - hence, the bedding areas, which in turn is a three part option... Boy bedding /girl bedding / mature buck bedding. I first look for the more difficult to find, solitude of a bed that the mature/nomad bucks lie in. These will likely have an abundance of rubs right in the bedding zone, which from my experience seems to be within 10-20 yards or so. (Link shows pics) http://www.bloodbro.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6883 This allows the buck to get up and stretch and do a little rubbing, maybe nibble on something or take a sip of water, then park his furry butt back down until darkness, when he really likes to move. I then figure out where the girls bed and in turn where they will head for (current) food. This helps me figure my stand location(s). The stand location is dependent on which phase of the year it is, weather it is early season, chasing, rut or post rut. I will then select the terrain in between what the buck is after, for that time of the season (food or breeding), to match the thickest cover, yet easiest path. Also another tip I have received and found valuable for me is, the smaller - almost faint trails, will usually be the buck trails and is typically down wind from a major trail, ranging by as much as 10-50 yards. A few years ago I found this to be true when I whacked a monster bodied deer with a good rack at the last shooting light. Unfortunately I only had the shooting lane cleared out to the major trail. The bucks trail was another 10 yards past, which I was unaware of, and had a 1 foot hole to shoot through and wasn't successful. I hit the branch, I didn't see, and the arrow went thud into his shoulder. The bucks bed, to me, is the first part of the equation and most difficult to find as there are fewer to look for. Another scouting example for buck beds... http://www.bloodbro.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=7077 FYI - The hill country DVD is very educating in divulging key info towards this topic - I'm just a big fan of theirs and can relate fully to them and Gri22ly, I think...
So if I don't have a defined pinch or ditch or ridge etc....then do I look for the thickest stuff I can find that leads to the food and bedding and set up?? Are you saying that when I do find big rubs, scrapes and food close to a bedding area that this may be jack pot?
Best thread in awhile guys, please keep it going...the wheels are turning and maybe now I understand why I have seen the 3 biggest bucks in the last 3 years from a certain tree around a certain time of year the last 3 years. It is a stand I hate, and only hunt it when I am running late and can't figure where to go. I think this year I am going to enter from a different direction (cross a creek) and give it a serious go. Man this is good stuff.
Let me put this out there.....Much if the new land I have is made up of cutover with some small swamps with creeks feeding them ...the creeks are where the standing timber is. there are other huge tracks of standing timber as well, but for the purpose of this thread, let's just talk about the cutover with creek and standing timber. fields will be the food source with soybeans in them. Is it a safe bet that most of the deer will be using these creek beds and timber to travel by? How about the swamps inside the large track of pines? do I need to look for those spots and the trails leading in and out?
Why wouldn't a buck bet in a wetland? I have a swamp that I hunt that is so thick and wet, but there are high spots with tall grass that a buck could easily crawl into. I have also found beds int his area when it was really dry in there. I'm not saying you're wrong I'm just curious to know why.
Sorry let me clarify...I was having too many thoughts at once. I have found beds both time when it was dry and when there water past my knee. There are small islands with enough cover and thick enough where a buck can sneak into and bed.
Wow, lot's of stuff being mentioned here. I'll give you my thoughts on the topic. First, know a big deer that you want to "kill" lives on a particular farm or piece of property that you are hunting. Second, hopefully you have confirmed the above with the use of trail cameras - big buck sign (big tracks, giant rubs), or have physically seen the buck before / durring the season. Once you know a shooter is living on the property you are hunting, then you need to identify the most likely bedding areas for that buck. It is very difficult to determine exactly where a buck beds unless you actually see him coming from or out of his bedroom. If you haven't, then you can only speculate. If you simply can't find his bed, you either have to wait for the rut, or pull a "bump him and dump him" approach. I won't do this on properties I know well. You typically already know (from past experiences) where deer are bedding. I will typically set-up rut stands on doe bedding areas. Specifically the down-wind side of these. I won't hunt them until the rut though. Beyond that - there is no typical way of moving in and killing a buck. Every property is different - every deer is different. You have to be flexible no-matter what. This is the most difficult aspect of bowhunting. Everyone want's to use a particular tactic to kill all bucks - and that tactic doesn't exist. Too many factors. In-regard to rubs, they can be a big clue where a big buck is spending alot of time. In our videos you will see me get cranked up when I come into certain areas that are shredded. When you see these areas, generally speaking, they are close to a bucks bedding area because he is spending lots of time there. I'm talking like 30-50 rubs within a 50-80 yard area. You will know when you see what I'm talking about. Those are spots I will hunt immediately upon finding them. Usually good early seaon, pre-rut. One MAJOR consideration in finding a ton of concentrated buck rubs and sign is this. That buck is spending that amount of time in that area for a reason. He feels comfortable there. The winds likely swirl really bad there, which is why he stands around rubbing instead of watching. He can smell or detect anything coming - even when he can't see it. Generally, I will spend more time considering wind on these set-ups, plannin on the wind giving me trouble. I don't remember the last time I set-up on a scrape or rub-line when I didn't believe it was either in (oaks) or near food sources, or a doe bedding area. The secret to bowhunting is to stack the deck in your favor. The more "things" (food, bedding, travel from or to bedding, water, security cover, pinch points, creek crossings, etc...) you can concentrate in a particular set-up - the better off you are. This is what I call stacking the deck. If you only have one thing making a stand set-up, I won't hunt it. The magic of editing is that you only see the set-ups that work. You don't see the other 90% of the time when we get skunked! If this stuff worked everytime, I'd have 100 monsters on my wall. Mostly though, if people hunted property that held bucks they considered shooters, they would get cracks at them. This is the reason why some guys I don't really consider to be the best hunters are killing giants. They hunt were giants live! If you can get on the right ground, it's not nearly as difficult as people think - it's all about pressure! Where big bucks live, typically they aren't being pressured too hard (or they wouldn't be there). In that case, they are killable.
Thank you Todd and Gri22ly and everyone, this was way more than I expected. I hunt thousands of acres and it is stretched over 2 counties with all different types of terrain and variables. Every peice of land I hunt has P&Y deer and some Booners as well, though those are not very often, however, it is realistic that I could see/kill a buck or two in the 125-145 range. I know they are here, but I just needed some insight. On average, I will see or shoot 1-2 100- 115" bucks a year, but in order for me to really exploit my lands, i need to be more keen on how the bigger bucks live instead of how the deer live and move.. I can go in the woods and find great sign..rubs, scrapes, trails, food..but this has not been productive for a buck older than 2.5 yrs old.. How do I know I have bigger bucks? I have killed them with a gun. That is a completely different ball game though. I know several bowhunters hunting adjacent lands and surrounding land and they kill em and see em on my land. I find giagantic rubs every year and many more solid rubs, I see what these mature deer leave behind, just don't seem them in the stand...I will take this new knowledge with me this year as I scout and hunt new land. Thank you everyone!!
