I believe P&Y issued a statement saying they fear that the proliferation of crossbows is the "#1 threat facing bowhunting today." With as old school as P&Y is I'm surprised they even have a website. Figured they'd handle all communication through snail mail or maybe one of those newfangled fax machines.
Thank you for supporting us people that served and continue serve in the armed forces old dog. I have been an avid hunter gun and bow hunter for years. I do support bow and gun hunting ...just not the way you want me to.
Norseman...I too served, maybe not as valliantly as some, (mine was easy time) but I did my time, and was proud to join when it wasn't considered "cool" or the popular thing to do. I thank you for your service, and I do not doubt that you support gun and hunting rights...I was merely trying to emphasize that this move in Wisconsin was a movement towards more rights. Maybe it is better put this way..."a house divided against itself cannot stand". If we stand for hunters rights, than we need to do just that. I don't own a crossbow, I don't own an AR, and I don't own a handgun...I believe very strongly it is my right to own and use all 3. When any of these are limited, my rights are limited also, because my choices are limited. I APOLOGIZE TO YOU PERSONALLY AND ANYONE ELSE i MAY HAVE OFFENDED BY MY LONG WINDED RANTS. We have alot of people who would try to make hunting illegal completely, and this is a step forward in our fight against them.
I figured Pope & Young would consider a compound bow cheating...lol. I agree with tynmiller....flawed system in my eyes. Xbows have been legal here in TN for a while. Personally I haven't seen much change. Few more hunters maybe...most of the Xbow hunters I've seen only hunt a few times a year anyway.
So what that their trying to keep what little tradition is left with bow hunting?? For all you haters of the P&Y club why do you consistently use the term P&Y when talking bucks then? Start using another term already. So much *****ing of the P&Y club from people. It's ridiculous. They try to be a conservative club. Not liberal like. Justin this thread is exactly what you wanted. All sorts of internet hits to publicize bowhunting.com. Again, all about the money.
Why do you measure your antlers? Maybe come up with the Ty scoring system? Why do you use the words Pope & Young? or Boone & Crockett? If they are flawed, why use flawed words?
I won't use them as a validity of a point but I do respect they desire to stay traditional more than most and admire that. I absolutely hate and will never understand the ignoring of gross total scores and deducting to get a "net" score. P&Y is a term I admit I throw around too, mainly because if you state you have a safari club or buckmasters quality buck on your wall not nearly as many people can equate that to a visual example in their head. However, you tell someone you arrowed a buck that just made P&Y...they have a quick idea of what that is. To my hunting friends I always use gross inch scores to describe deer...but still find myself using the old P&Y term.
I explained my response in the post above. It comes down to the fact more people know what you're talking about. Basically I'm a huge advocate of Gross not Net scoring...give credit to the what the animal grew, not how it grew. If it was easy to do I'd also be all for a trophy system which factors in age (Wish deer simply had growth rings like trees haha!).
The reason more people understand you is because there is alot more respect given to Pope & Young than most realize. The club does alot for conservation and the heritage of bowhunting. It just cracks me up that people will talk about 125" or Pope & Young and whine about lighted knocks or crossbows. Why? If you do not care about Pope & Young and their scoring system, why complain?
We are cool Old Dog, we may not always agree, but I understand what your saying. thank you for your service to.
Reading through this thread I wonder how many of the people that are against this because its too easy or too much like a gun to be part of archery season take their children, wives, or older fathers or grandfather's out gun hunting or heaven forbid with a crossbow? Why not leave them at home? I mean obviously if you can't pull back a 60# bow then your cheating and have no right to go hunting and if you can but choose to use a gun then your apparently too lazy and shouldn't be out there taking up room in the woods that a far superior bowhunter should have.
The issue with most is aligning the crossbow with bowhunting. The progression of bowhunting from traditional, compounds and now some crossbows has some people wondering if this is the right direction for bowhunting. Would it be ok if I sold the riflebow? It will shoot swhackers and a carbon arrow out of a .270 at 300 yards. It is too hard for my grandma to use the cocking device on her crossbow. Where will the slippery slope lead? I don't think most people believe the crossbow is evil. Alot of people that don't believe in mixing the crossbows with bowhunting probably hunt with a rifle some. I think the arguement is considering the crossbow equal to a compound or a traditional bow and aligning the seasons. Illinois does not consider the crossbow equal.
Several comments and thoughts: 1)If crossbows are all about inclusion, why stop at crossbows? Have one general season and use any weapon. 2) Crossbows have been presented as an easy way to recruit new archers, but is this even an issue? Take a look at the number of bow licenses sold over the last 15 year, I think you will see and upward trend in most places. what about all of us on here? Weren't we recruited without crossbows? Why is easy considered positive? 3) They are also presented as a quicker and easier way to become proficient. Yet same people state how its no different then hunting with a vertical bow.....well which is it? It cant be both ways. 4)Since when has established tradition become a negative thing? I would argue our tradition is worth persevering and respecting. Especially considering how far we have come as bow hunters over the last 50 years. To me archery means drawing the bow in the presence of game and holding it by my own accord until I shoot at the animal. 5) Why does the industry and its lobby get to decide the direction of our sport? Take a look at who is doing the lobbying and follow the money and you might have sense to their motivations. While it not popular on this site, I am personally opposed to crossbows being used during the archery season with an exception for disabled hunters.
You look back when this topic comes up I'm not one to whine about P&Y or say they're wrong. I just don't agree with their parameters...however I fully would throw fiscal support their way well before some of the others because of all they do like you stated. On the topic of crossbows directly I have already said I'm not against them, they allow some who otherwise couldn't hunt (outside of gun seasons) hunt. That said I do find it hard to equate them the exact comparison given to them and compound bows...similar to how Indiana does. I usually don't bring this up because I don't know even exactly what I feel....but the grey area for me is should they have their own special seasons or parameters not similar to compound? Not sure what is best, but I do know the crossbow is easier in a lot of ways than a compound similar to how easier a compound is to a recurve or then a longbow.
I should have been more clear, I was only directing the first sentence towards you. I am not sure how I feel about it either. If I knew for sure that the progression would slow or stop it probably would not bother me. Bowhunting is more of a lifestyle and a heritage that I think is worth protecting. The bond between bowhunters is strong because of the effort it takes. Crossbows do not require the same amount of effort.
My only question is how does a crossbow fall in the same line as a firearm? Because you can cock it back and don't haveta draw? So if you drew a crossbow it'd be alright? Or is it because it has a trigger? You can make that argument if you use anything but fingers to shoot a bow. Once the shot takes place there's little difference if its a arrow or a bolt. They both travel same speed and have pretty much same range. There's people that get on here all the time saying they can't believe this video or show showed a 60, 70, or even 80 yard shot with a bow. I guess yea you can put a scope on a crossbow and some people will take marginal shots but again we see that argument on here all the time for mechanical broadheads. (Look up almost any thread on Rage broadheads) As far as Lastoneouts pic above I saw a doe last year along the road walking around with a arrow stuck in its neck, not much penetration. There's people out there that take terrible shots with any weapon and with any weapon there's people that don't put in the effort to be proficient with it. Hell some on here would probably say that about me I haven't shot my bow since taking a doe Oct 1, but I'm also smart enough to know my limitations and have enough self control not to take shot that are low percentage. Some aren't and that has little to do with the weapon.
A lot of good discussion on both sides...as I stated before I am for it, not necessarily just because it "the same as a compound"..it isn't, but it allows more families to hunt together, and that is what the sport is all about. (IMO) Also because it is an advancement in hunter's rights...after losing ground in many areas...I am very much in favor of any victory we get. Limiting, or eliminating the crossbows because of moral issues of fairness however is very short sighted...and it opens the door or further legislation against ... so many issues. baiting, food plots, legal or illegal sights,
jrk_indle84....personally I don't view them similar to a gun, but I also can't view them as similar to compound bows either. To me it's not the acceptance and support of crossbows that is a question for me, I just struggle myself with whether they should be lumped into the exact same seasons across the board with compounds/recurves/longbows.
