Wisconsin DTR meeting live video today

Interesting 3 hour video. The highlight was when Dr. Kroll stated "I invented the trailcam but never made any money off it" Wow, Al Gore and now Dr. Reconyx?

1) Baiting ban statewide is the recommendation.

2) Dmap will not takeoff unless forced on MFL lands.

3) Public land hunt improvement will go nowhere without a ban on deer drives, gun party hunting, separate tags, and a complete policy change regarding logging mature public forest.

4) They will raise antlerless fees to $12 and limit # by hunter. Really dumb move imo.

http://dnrmedia.wi.gov/main/Play/238...d46eb471ff4e1d
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No deer drives? Thank god that's not here, that's bout the only way to get the deer movin durin the rifle season.

 

Is there an archive?

 

Found it. The whole process they put in place proves one thing: if you give groups the power to be stupid, they will be stupid.

Delay CWD, delay CWD, delay CWD. By limiting the deer herd. Then in the next breath, they talk about improving opportunity on public land! Think about that contradiction alone.

Wisconsin can't even count deer. When people don't see deer, they claim they fall into blackholes during the season. It is ridiculous.

What are they asking for in the end? MORE MONEY. That is how this leftist crowd always thinks. We don't care about the facts, just let us spend more tax dollars or hunting fees on it and give me more power.

Government can't educate our kids, spend our way to prosperity or manage a deer herd.

 

And private land owners south of Hwy 29 have proven they are unwilling or unable to reduce the herd to sane levels so here comes every tweak to stack more deer. Statewide rifle, xbows, dmap, ect.

 

I'm definitely going to have to watch this sometime

 

Here's a link to a summary article. They also recommended the "buck" tag becomes either sex for all, 1 antlerless tag sold/day/hunter, $12 fee statewide.

Paul Smith - Action teams give progress reports on deer plan

 

The deer herd is WAY down in the south as well. Are there some pockets? Sure. But there are not even close to what the peaks were (or what the DNR estimated right before the crash).

Wonder why deer are on private land in the southern areas? PUBLIC LAND IS A DESERT! Mile after mile after mile of grass for unproductive "waterfowl production" areas and planting DNR raised Ringneck Chickens. Yeah, that is conservation. So is every other Pheasant releasing hunt club then.

The DNR whitetail strategy is in conflict with itself.

 

Do you really believe the herd is at a healthy level in Fondulac, Outagamie and Waupaca county? The top deer/car collision counties in the state?
The DNR has to balance resources and management with other hunter's interested beyond deer. Even the born to die chicken program.

 

Yes, I can say they are not beyond carrying capacity. Try comparing historical car crash data in those counties. See a trend?

The Chicken program should be tossed out. In fact, it is the reason the wild population has collapsed.

What do you think needs those gigantic fields of single species grass? Sure, maybe a duck will nest in them occasionally. Try looking at the ducks/acre number some time. It is a joke. Prairie restoration by a**!

 

Please define what carrying capacity means to You. Major crop loss, permanent overbrowse damage, no new hardwood regen, winterkill this year in ag country, taking 400 antlerless off 140 acres in ten years and it never makes a dent? 80 dpsm in those counties is double the proper level per the state bio guys.

 

I can throw a rock into Fond du Lac county from here. There is no permanent overbrowse damage. Same old same old form the DNR. Abusing the math to "create" an issue. There is this nice imaginary wall at the Dodge county line....

They also claim southern Door and Kewaunee have 100 deer per square mile. They claim they are destroying the white cedar... and they will show you a picture of private, unhuntable land on Washington Island to prove it! What a joke. I go thru there a ton, see tons of white cedar in the understory, don't see huge numbers of deer.

The year of the bust, they predicted 1.85 million animals. By the end, they reestimated (and then never reported estimates ever again) 1.2 million were actually there. The DNR can't count. Heck, look at wolves and bears!

If you believe there are 80-100 dpsm, I have a bridge I want to show you.

 

Sadly, most deer hunters can not define carrying capacity let alone walk a property and notice the signs of too many deer. What does carrying capacity mean to you? For most it means a deer behind every tree which enables the 2 day/year gun hunter an quick hunt for that sporty forkie.
You are right, I don't believe 80-100 dpsm. We harvest 40 and our dpsm is at least 300. Look in the mirror when You wonder why the DNR is allowing any method possible to stack deer. Either sex "buck" tags, rifle statewide, xbows,dmap, ect.

 

I am sorry, we will have to agree to let you be wrong, just like the DNR was wrong the last time I had presented this information (and, now that several were removed from their positions, I was hoping it would get better; it has to some degree). I am a mathematician (Engineering and Biomathematics to be exact).

Using some common sense would inject a lot of info into the argument. HUMAN density is 140 people per square mile in Fond du Lac County. You are arguing there are more than twice as many deer as people?

 

Ha, I slept with an engineer for 22 years, I get it now. Here is the DNR link to 62b, my area. You can digest these numbers which are very accurate. 1) Only 70% of 62b is considered deer range 2) They claim the dpsm is at 89 which I agree with. I have 500 acres with at least 200 deer on it in April ( I did winter rye food plot counts myself) which just ballooned to 300 plus this week with twin fawns dropping. 3)The harvest numbers are racing up to 2005 insane levels again.
Does every property in 62b have 300 dpsm? No, they have not planted 30,000 trees, 12 acres of great food plots and manage the property in ways to hold deer over 37 years.
What math info did You present to the DNR causing "several" state employees to be removed from their position. It's reassuring to know a fluids and dynamics course trumps a wildlife bio masters programs.

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/forum/62B.pdf

 

Only 23% of 68A (Fondulac county) is considered deer habitat. Your wildlife biologist is claiming 78 dpsm in the 23% of deer habitat.

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/forum/68A.pdf

 

If you think their numbers are accurate, again, lets look at bridges. Or, lets compare the DNR bear count to the university's count. Or, lets see how those "800" wolves are doing. Or lets look at the units where you will be lucky to see a deer in the next 10 years because there were so many they butchered them and now there are none because they "overcounted a little". And they lie about it. There are several zones up north that should be reporting single digit densities.

DNR track record is ZERO. If you want to play make believe, keep using their numbers. There is a reason the DNR got a house cleaning... the mathematicians turned out to be right. If ya can't do the math, don't bother counting. The numbers have been reduced to fiction. The whole CWD "battle" is a fantasy.

Reminds me of when they used to count paper ducks, too. In any case, you better get out there and slaughter them! That way when you find out the counts were 50% off, you can enjoy many years of blissful hours watching birds from your treestand.

 

I count my own multiple hundreds myself all at once on foodplots. Hunting the same dirt since 75' and the herd goes from too many to insane. We will dump 60 baldies this year from the 40/year we have averaged the last ten years. This discussion proves the DNR is in the hunter management/education business more then deer management.

 

You are a degreed whitetail biologist?

 

Probably the best whitetail state on the planet with the most book entries (second place isn't close) and our DNR is that messed up? Imagine what we could do with some some real pros.