Wisconsin’s CWD Rate Hits Record High

Here's a question why are rates for CWD higher in game farms?

 

My understanding it is from purchasing stock that has the disease already.

 

Because the media says so. But I question the premise of the question.

"Higher on game farms?" The infection rates in the wild herd in Iowa county is certainly higher than any number of game farms in the state. There are game farms with zero infection rates and there are wild herds with 23% infection rates. Its safe to say that depending on which deer you look at, this data varies. There are deer farms that have been operating for decades with not a single positive and those farms may operate several more decades without a positive.

There are sheep farms with Scrappies and sheep farms with no scrappies. In captive deer herds, CWD introduction is perhaps largely due to transporting infected deer to farms and those farms ending up with an infected herd because the infected deer shed into the environment and other deer are exposed to that infectious matter. I think that one of the reasons deer farms have taken to rigid separation of males and females because if they were allowed to co-habitat and a positive discovered in the doe population, the entire herd would be subject to depopulation.

If a farm does all its own breeding on site and only dead deer leave the fence, there is a pretty low likelihood they will have a CWD positive. Simply warehousing deer does not create CWD infection and while CWD is naturally occurring, its very rare for it to show up in a deer (just like it is in humans with CJD).

There are deer farms that never transport deer into or out of their fence (except dead deer, all of which are now tested postmortem) that have not had a case of CWD.

I cant cite with certainty but I think if one were to look at WI data, annually there are more positives in free ranging deer than there are on game farms and all dead deer leaving game farms are tested. We just get to hear about the game farm positives because it’s “news”

While I don’t advocate for keeping deer captive and have never been to a deer farm, I understand that shooting operations are only a segment of the deer farmers, Deer lure sellers, meat sellers and other reasons exist for why people keep captive deer. Since its their livelihood I would imagine like any animal farmers, cervid farmers do everything they can to keep their cash crop disease free.

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You do have insightful answers but the premise for the question comes from the original so called out break in Wisconsin. This is where they killed and tested a lot of game farm deer and the percentage of deer with CWD was higher then the deer harvested in the eradication zone based on what I remember from the time. This was the time a lot of deer farms went under because of all the new policies and standards they had to comply with.

I bring this up because of the deer that was discovered in Clark county WI to have CWD that escaped from a game farm which then made the whole county a bait free zone. It seemed a bit excessive for one deer that they knew came from a farm.

 

That's happened in a variety of counties (such as Portage county due to the Hall Farm) In some case, a single captive positive from a farm near a county line resulted in a baiting ban in 2 or 3 counties due to the 10 mile rule. It was created to eventually ban baiting state wide which will have error effect on CWD. Baiting is not a vector unless 1/4 and 1/2 acre plots are also a vector (and they are not either). The counties with the most CWD have no baiting and counties with no CWD allow baiting. That law did make some folks feel like they were winning the war on CWD. They were incorrect. If they want to ban baiting statewide effective immediately, it wont change a thing.

 

I speak only for myself, but I've spent a fairly considerable amount of time digging into CWD research and publicly available information before forming my opinions. I'd go so far as to say I know more than the average deer hunter about CWD.

As for Pat Durkin, he's a well respected member of the outdoor community who has held a variety of editorial positions with local, regional and national publications. I could be wrong, but I suspect your anti-Durkin stance may be due to factors outside of his stance on CWD.

I believe we've already established the eradication is not an option for controlling or stopping CWD.

A variety of studies have suggest links between BSE (mad cow) and CJD may exist. In fact, there is now a policy in place in the US that prevents people from donating blood if they've lived for more than 3 months in countries where BSE is found. What is a sound barrier today may not be that way forever.

There have also been a variety of recent studies showing that this barrier may not be as sound as we once believed. Reference here. For the sake of importance, here's the final line of that study. "Additionally, we showed that chronic wasting disease prions are effective at seeding the conversion of normal human prion protein to an amyloid conformation, perhaps the first step in crossing the species barrier."

I would agree with this.

Did ol' Pat wrong you and your family at some point in time? Your dislike of him seems awfully personal.

 

True, but infection rates of Scrapies, BSE and CJD are a fraction of what CWD infection rates are, and are not spreading at anywhere near the same rate. Scrapies infection rates are something like 0.2% and CJD is about 1 per every million people.

In the UK, there are regulations regarding the processing of cattle in regards to disposal of items like the brain, spine, etc in an effort to curb the spread of the disease and protect both the cattle and the humans who consume it. We have no regulations in place for the processing of whitetails to help prevent the transmission of CWD. Seems like a relatively simple place to start.

True.

True

Durkin is simply pointing out the facts that CWD infection is worsening in Wisconsin and it's basically being swept under the rug because it's not a popular topic to talk about. He knows that he doesn't have the answer to this issue, but is trying to shed light on it in order to inspire others to talk about it and hopefully start thinking about enacting change. Without more deer hunters having an active voice in how the herd is managed it's left to the politicians to do it.

It seems to me like you're heavily focused on the fact that baiting doesn't stop the spread of CWD and that Pat Durkin is a bad person. What about the facts that CWD infection rate is increasing exponentially each year and spreading into new areas? Are we to believe that an always-fatal disease, spreading at a rapid rate, is not ever going to affect the deer population as a whole?

 

I only focused on letting people know whats taking place. At no time did I imply or infer that Durkin is a bad person. You did that. I again only informed people about the situation and his motives. I also informed on the hypocrisy of baiting and feed plots as it relates to CWD transmission

What about it? Gift the state of WI 100 million dollars tomorrow to combat CWD, Allow the DNR and not lawmakers to legislate the action plan and the results 10 years from now will look just like they will look on the current path.

Who said that? You ask straw man questions no body asked or implied. Its going to effect a portion of the state (those with specific soil types like Montmorillonite clay) and not so much in the sandy soils. Certain deer types based on their parents wont get CWD. Bumpers kill more deer annually that does CWD and its n the increase statewide.

 

I would have no problem taking my deer in for testing.......if the check station wasnt 35 minutes one way away. And my processor wasn't 25 minutes the other direction.
So I shoot a deer 7 miles from my house......drive it an hour to get it tested then drive 50 more minutes to just drop it off at the processor.
cut that trip to even 15 minutes and sign me up.

 

If you look at the history of CWD in WI. you will find it was the game farms that brought it to Wi. Every time we have a new outbrake it is becauce a game farm lost deer through their fence. Also I read Durkins 2 times a month in Wi. News. He is very anti Walker.

 

That is not correct. While it was captive deer transport that brought CWD to WI it was not a deer farmer or shooting preserve that brought infected deer to the Cheese state. It was the DNR. That coupled with their ignorance of how to properly dispose of infected matter from deer they hoped to study (to be fair, they thought the Prions were only in the brain and lymph nodes back then. Now its known to be in every fiber of their being including blood and once mixed with soil , the infectivity increases 700% over nose to nose transmission routes.) and once in the soil cannot be removed except though some amazing acts not feasible outside a lab setting.

They hoped to study and cure a disease and through escapes and improper handling of infected matter, brought the problem to WI. There is great irony in all this. CWD traveled from the western states to the east in the back s of trucks.

Some timeline info for those interested and how state wildlife agencies are at the heart of this.

January 12, 1967 CWD was first identified as a clinical disease in captive mule deer at the Colorado Division of Wildlife Foothills Wildlife Research Facility in Fort Collins, Colorado.

June 6, 1979 CWD was first recognized in captive mule deer and black-tailed deer at the Wyoming Fish and Game Department’s Sybille wildlife research facility.

September 9, 1981 The Colorado Division of Wildlife identified CWD in a wild elk, marking the first documented case of CWD in a wild cervid. (almost certainly as a result of either an escape or improper handling of infected matter by the state)

February 4, 1985 The Colorado Division of Wildlife confirmed the presence of CWD in a wild mule deer for the first time. The Colorado Division of Wildlife attempted to eliminate CWD from the Fort Collins Foothills Wildlife Research Facility by treating the soil with chlorine, removing the treated soil, and applying an additional chlorine treatment before letting the facility remain vacant for more than a year. The effort was unsuccessful.

http://www.stopcwd.org/library/library2.cfm?articleID=13

 

Innovative Outdoorsman, I think you have made some good points other than dogging Durkin. Myself, I find the dispersal of CWD fascinating (another topic); however consumption of the meat/venison or handling of the deer is a potential health threat. Common sense tells me not to go against the recommendations of the CDC & WHO.

Do you think it is safe to eat venison from a known positive CWD deer & why? Would you let your friends, family & children eat it? Could you explain what human diseases the protein TDP-43 is found in and why this would worry the CDC & WHO? Do you give any thought to the accumulation & incubation period of prions in humans?

My point is: with all of the unknowns associated with CWD I would not think the risk is worth the reward when it comes to handling or consuming CWD positive deer. Myself, I would not deer hunt in large parts of Southern Wisconsin and hopefully I am in the minority.

 

I think if you look into it you already do run counter to the CDC and WHO. Both are overly cautious in a CYA manner. Nothing wrong with that since they don’t need or want hassle so they error on the side of covering their butts.

Safe??? I reject the question based on that since you need to define what you deem "safe" but I will say that its being done on a daily basis and not only in WI. WI and other states maintain a registry of people that have consumed deer that tested positive. Many folk eat their deer before finding out it tested positive. Those people (once notified of a positive test) are asked if they have consumed any of the meat. If yes, those people are added to the registry. Why? So that monitoring is kept of those folks to see if there is an increase of VCJD in humans known to have consumed CWD infected deer. WI is not alone. This registry is decades old and continues to update the names on the list. I think it goes back at least 40 years and there is no increased instances of humans attracting VCJD than the general public.

Yes and I have been for many many years. I don’t know anybody that bothers to test any more. Friends, family & children have and continue to eat my venison and that of a very large number of hunters that take deer from a CWD zone and not just in WI.

Could you explain what human diseases the protein TDP-43 is found in and why this would worry the CDC & WHO?

This might be worth reading. Scientists uncover TDP-43 protein as possible target for treatment of ALS, FTD

Sure, I give thought to many things. Its been about 50 years running with no increase in human VCJD as compared to those who don’t eat venison from CWD infected zones. The species barrier is and has continued to be challenged. Deer to human transfers via consuming venison has not been realized in that time. I think about alternate routes such as a CWD infected deer expiring in the wild and it’s bones eaten by a squirrel that I eat which is why state labs are constantly challenging alternate transmission routes such a deer to bank voles to bear which is why these labs create bovidized mice, cervidized mice, ovidized mice, humanized mice and so forth so they can directly inject into the brains of these critters infectious matter to see if there is some sort of pinball method of deer to squirrel to dirt to bear to human route.

Even in animals that will become infected with a direct cranial injection of infected matter, the oral route does not result in infection so I avoid getting CWD meat on my brain. (jk)

cynomolgus macaque monkeys are perhaps as close to humans as we can find. Studies where both cranial injection and oral injects have shown it wont transfer. 40+ years of unintentional oral consumption of infected venison by humans does not indicate cwd transfers to humans is likely or even possible. That live and continuing and ongoing data suggests there is little if anything to fear.

Then you should not as you have made a conscious decision to do so. Others don’t hold those opinions.

 

We will just have to agree to disagree.

 

Im cool with that. If you and I agreed on everything, one of us would be unnecessary.

 

Wrigley was a great business man.

 

Just so I'm clear on this, your stance is that no DNR or state game agency should be worried about the spread of CWD or it's impact on their deer herd because, simply put, there's nothing that can be done about it.

Seems like we've gone round and round to get to this conclusion.

 

Then no, You are not clear nor have you captured my stance.

 

What I've gotten so far is that what has been done so far has been tantamount to peeing in the wind and that CWD has been used as an excuse to further items on an agenda that actually has nothing to do with CWD. Making it illegal to bait and feed deer and giving an excuse to slaughter deer herds in reduction efforts that do nothing to stop CWD because it's transmitted far more through soil than deer contact.

 

I think a great deal has been learned. The outbreak spawned a lot of research that furthered the understanding of the disease and possible transmission routes. We know more now than ever before and that is due to UW Madison and the great work they did and continue to do so I don’t think whats been done so far has been a waste or for naught. Knowledge is power. On top of that we know what we can do about it and what we can’t do about it.

We cant kill all the deer in the affected area.

Even if we could kill all the deer from the affected area we could not excavate the millions of cubic tons of infective soils to remove it and the plants that also contribute to the spread.

Even if we could remove all that soil, who would take it? Where do you put it?

Knowing these facts, hunters, the DNR and the scientific community understand the futility of not only stopping CWD in a wild setting but also keeping it from spreading. So long as we allow dirt to leave on the treads of tires and even westerly winds and plant matter grown there to leave and infected deer that naturally travel outside their range, the disease will spread, more deer will be infected and the hot zone will expand. Some (but not all) deer will become infected based on the parents of those deer and the allele type. The works of Chad Johnson and Judd Aiken are nothing short of amazing.

Resistance to Chronic Wasting Disease in Transgenic Mice Expressing a Naturally Occurring Allelic Variant of Deer Prion Protein

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As for baiting and feeding and a cause or cure or even a vector? Pfffft. If you insist it is then you have to agree it includes all hunter provided free handouts including feed plots.