This mindset may be the most ludicrus mindset that the hunting industry has fostered. Trying to manage a herd without a fence, and calling a younger buck that is non typical a cull buck is an excuse for a lack of patience. Half the genes for any buck come from the doe that gave birth.
What if people are asking about the age to learn???? I'm a novice in regards to age of a deer. Maybe others are trying to get more experience in telling which deer is 2 1/2 and 3 1/2. In the end, all we are doing is talking about our experiences and our opinions of a picture of a nice buck. In my humble opinion I wouldn't ever judge anyone for shooting a young deer and most people on this site are the same. If it's legal and the hunter is glad to shoot that animal, I am nobody to judge.
If you believe in culling...your definition of good controls it....which varies due to differing opinions, which brings me to the crux of it all: Hunting by nature is a personal thing. Dating all the way back to when our ancestors did it for survival...we too do it now. It never has, nor ever will be, nor ever should be a "societal" thing. I've never heard of two guys squeezing the release of the same bow or the trigger of the same gun at the same exact moment for a harvest. IT IS A PERSONAL THING. When we hit the woods, climb the tree and ultimately make the decision...IT IS A PERSONAL THING. Each driven by different goals and different justifications inside our own heads that lead to our decision...but IT IS A PERSONAL THING. Not one hunter has it more right than another...we merely can relate more to some and not others. However, there is one thing we all can relate to: the joy of the harvest! That is what often times you'll see especially here on this forum. Our biggest trophy guys here will be some of the first guys congratulating and commenting on a buck harvest..or even a doe harvest! Because they get IT IS A PERSONAL THING. I will never attempt to justify, defend or refute someone's opinion so long as it is grounded in ethical hunting habits. Blessings to all and may your season have a happy ending to a blood trail!
Agree somewhat but those does genes also share half their genes with their sires so that copout is not entirely logical. Any way you cut it, managing for better genetics in bucks effects the entire regional herd. There's reason in the argument that you simply can't impact enough deer to matter but a pond fills one drop at a time and it eventually fills up if it has a large enough watershed to overcome evaporation. Same thing with deer management, this is why you can manage a fenced herd easier, basically a smaller pond with a large watershed. That's why in free range herds management is more effective with coops of landowners. So to say free ranging herds cannot be managed for genetics is true and false from a certain point of view. It's not impossible though impractical if you can't effect enough of the herd (too small of a watershed). We have to remember that the nature of deer herds are already evolved to help this process out. As a general rule, the bigger bucks (better genetics) out compete the lessor ones for the best does simply by the way their process works. What biologists have failed to take into account in studies on managing free range genetics is that the impacts of managing for desired traits of big bucks is actually augmented naturally by the way their breeding competition works. Beyond that, desirable traits aren't all dependent on genetics, genetics aren't as important as nutrition. Management for big bucks has to be comprehensive. Nutrition, favor age structure, favor large...healthy breeders does and bucks and does that successfully raise fawns every year. This in essence is in fact managing for genetics, genetics of strong, big bodied animals but also intelligent animals that are able to adapt to survive. Managing their nutrition gives them every chance to reach their potential with less stress by removing a few limiting factors and stacking generational genetics. So this is all managing genetics in free range deer to one extent or another, it's what I do and I think the pics of our deer speak for the success of the premise. Our deer have improved overall in just the time I've managed since 2012. The young deer look better and the bucks have gained in average points from 8's to tens and starting to see some 12's.
Covey, I agree 100% about the most effective way to manage deer is thru nutrition. I also believe that the less young bucks you take out the more mature deer there will be in the future.
Sure, I don't think I was advocating culling young bucks there. I was in part refuting the absolution of the impossibility to manage genetics in a free range herd. I guess chaos theory comes into play a little here in that it could be argued that decisions made to take or let walk, any deer is going to eventually have some impact on the deer genetics in a huge area, at least to some finite amount.
This is true but the probability of managing the best possible genetic outcome thru management isn't like a drop of water in a pond it is more like peeing into the Gulf of Mexico to try to bring up the water temperature.
I only shoot bucks if they are over 200", killing anything else is a waste of time and money. My neighbors keep killing them in that 150" to 190" range, it drives me nuts. You can't kill a 200" buck if you keep shooting them 180's.
I disagree. Based on how much ground I manage and number of cameras and time of study here, deer herds are far from being comparable to either the thermal stability, nor the vastness of that area of water. Young bucks can have a broad range of dispersal but it's also circular on a generational scale. Your well managed young bucks may migrate away from their point of origin but within two generations some of their offspring are just as likely to migrate back. The original herd and a good number of their offspring never get far from their original home range. Studies have shown some deer moving miles but I don't think those cases are all that typical from what I've seen here. Some deer are movers, some are not and some are somewhere in between.
Wow !!! Lots of Gods on this tread... Managing and improving deer genetics and populations... I'm impressed !!! Actually...................not ! If you want to hunt... just do it... If you want to save deers, make them bigger and have the best looking, biggest racks, better genetics deer have more offsprings....... Take a year OFF ! ...
Trophy hunting is ancient since the beginning of time. There's nothing wrong with trophy hunting. Some folks think that it's best for this animal to live through his life cycle till he fully matures.
Why does it bother you? If some1 has the opportunity to manage their heard why shouldn't they? I asked that very question about a pic of my own just simply because I wanted more opinions. I have also hunted in places where if you see antlers and it's not a spike you pry shoot it. They are both fine. No reason for one to be wrong or right. We all love the same thing man that's why we are here.
There really is nothing wrong on both. Most hunters started as meat hunters. The qdma encourages every one to let the young ones grow, harvest the mature deer. That also helps us conserve the natural resources.
