Rather than hi-jack the "what arrow are you using" thread, I decided to start another one, but reading many of the responses of FMJ arrows and inserts is the catalyst for this thread. I am also trying to get a heavier arrow, not a lighter one for better penetration. And why shouldn't I ? I am not a 3D competitor but strictly a hunter. Outside of a couple of Elk/Mule Deer hunts to either N Mexico or Colorado where I might have the occasional longer distance shot opportunity, the rest of my hunting is ambush hunting where it is very very rare that I take a shot over 30 yds and not many shots are over 25 yards. So I don't need a "flat flying" arrow as much as I need added weight and proper FOC for improved penetration and arrow flight. Like most of you, I started shooting carbons pretty soon after they came on the market. I bought into the improved "straightness", and no "bent arrow" concern, the increased speed and the increased penetration. And while it is hard to dispute the advantage carbons have to straightness and "bent arrow" concern, I have always questioned the increased penetration claim when attached to a broadhead. Sure, a smaller diamater arrow attached to a field point is going to penetrate better, but how does the physics apply when either (carbon or aluminum) are attached to a 1" plus diamater broadhead in which either arrow is much smaller in diamater than the cutting surface of the broadhead. I have seen the transition over the last several years to pay a "premium" for heavier carbons when aluminum arrows could accomplish the same added weight for maybe 1/3 of the cost. Other than the straightness tolerance and the lack of concern of a bent arrow, what am I missing when I am considering going back to aluminums for HUGE savings and yet being able to accomplish the same thing, which is a heavier arrow, and increased KE and improved penetration?
It has more to do with the faster recovery time that a small diam arrow has. Essentially since they recover faster form the whipping motion as the arrow launches, they retain more energy. It's really not that significant though. For the most part a big fat arrow will penetrate just fine. They do however buck the cross wind a little better and are tough as nails. I shoot the FMJ for their weight but also for their toughness. You'll be hard pressed to find a more durable arrow IMO.
Having no real experience with aluminum shafts, take my reply with a grain of salt. Currently my main two hunting arrows weight 605 and 535 grains. I don't really need to go heavier so I don't think aluminum would help me there. Some of these shafts I have to have shot around a 1000 times at least and the spine and straightness are still right on. From what I have read about aluminums I don't think they would last that many shots but, with no real experience of my own, they may for all I know. I will stick with carbons for the forseeable future because of their perceived durability. When it comes right down to it I am paying pennies per shot and to me, that's a pretty good deal.
I'm much along the same line of thinking of Bruce (imagine that :p). Additionally, it's sort of like I've heard Rick James say several times when speaking of the advantages of a light target bow... you can put the weight where you want it. With my V-force 350s, I can start out with a "normal" finished arrow that would come in around 360 with an aluminum insert (such as the arrows I built for my antelope hunt last year). But... what I like is I can get them up to 450 grains or even heavier with the bulk of that weight coming from the very front -- and not dispersed all throughout the length of the shaft.
Something else to note: In regards to the FOC %, If you think about it, you are able to control and adjust the FOC % more on a carbon arrow than an aluminum arrow. If the arrow density is higher for aluminum than carbon, than adding the same amount of tip weight will effect the FOC % less on an aluminum arrow. In other words, you will have to add more tip weight on an aluminum arrow than a carbon arrow to get the same change in percentage.
hell i shoot aluminum gamegetters 400 grain arrows and 100 grain magnus broadheads of a 50# set up.i'll put my distance shots and penetration against any out there as well as my groupings. i shot carbon arrows and i didnt like them the way they flew,the way they grouped,and i seen the almost indestructable theory go out the window. i'm not saying that they are bad arrows i'm saying they just arent whats going to get it done for me.
This reason right here Is the only reason why I went to FMJ's last year. I shot 2216's for 14 years with my recurve and never had an Issue with them but I wanted to up my FOC. Increasing the FOC of an aluminum shaft Immensely can be done but It's much harder to do to keep good arrow flight. It was a piece of cake with my 340 FMJ's.
A lot of great reasons have been posted on the advantages of using carbon so far. I had my first bad bout with carbons last year breaking one at Mobows truck in Oklahoma and two on whitetail (one on each deer I shot). I was using an arrow brand different than the ones I have shot for years and it prompted me to switch back to my reliable brand. Other than initial cost (although I believe carbons are cheaper in the long run), ease of tuning the shaft and components and arrow straighness (aluminums are straighter than carbons) I see no benefit at all to shoot them. I can tell you I have beat the snot out of carbon arrows only to shoot them again and again.
Because, in the end, I see NO downside to shooting carbons. I get 500+gr. out of mine with 150gr.+, up front. In the end, they're also cheaper.
Aluminum's are more consistent in the GPI department, but it's still not a noticeable difference over a quality carbon shaft.
I've never hunted with a carbon arrow and probably never will. The closest I'd get would be to try an ACC.
How about this aluminum (work) hardens the more it bends with use the more brittle it gets........... dont know how it applys to arrows but it does in some of my engines alum connecting rods I use to see a lot of broken arrows before carbon shafts came out. just throwing that one out there.. flame away.
I'll stick with my aluminum/carbons such as FMJ or ACC's. Never again will I ever see an all carbon arrow out of my bows. IMO aluminum/carbons or aluminums are safer. I see no advantage shooting an all carbon arrow other than perceived durability. Carbons can and will lose their spine and straightness.
So far, the durability is not perceived, it is real. I have checked my shafts on a spine checker and spun them for straightness. As with anything else, you usually get what you pay for and, if you want to buy a less expensive shaft then it is likely the spine and straightness will suffer more quickly. I am aware of independent tests done on shafts made by the company I use and they have noted no loss of spine or straightness after 9000+ shots.
Thanks for the replies. Some good reasons/explanations were given. I also appreciate being corrected on my misunderstanding in regard to straightness tolerance between the two. I haven't made up mind yet. It is probably the rebel/contrarian in me. I just can't get over the presumption (on my part) that I am buying a 4 dollar mouse trap when a 1 dollar mouse trap will catch just as many mice. Its not that the 4 dollars is going to break me, just the principle of it all. You guys bring up a good point about durability, but I have to be honest, I am such a lousy shot, I break a hell of a lot of carbons and don't usually have them too long, so I don't know that durability is a big issue with me. As my dad used to say, I could tear up an anvil.
I shot alum's out of my stickbow for a couple seasons (practicing). I went through 'em fast. Bent. Broke. I use WAY less carbon arrows. In the end, durability = costs savings. I can get them as heavy as I need to. They're "straighter" than THIS archer can discern a difference. I keep an eye on them.....and actually I've never broken one, shooting them (nor has anyone I know). Again....I know of no ADvantage to aluminums. Not one.
If you look at the cost as price-per-shot(PPS) then aluminums may be the best solution for you. If you are getting a limited number of shots on a shaft before it is unusable then a lower initial cost would reduce your PPS. High initial cost only becomes reasonable when you can can a lot of shots out of each shaft. If you are satisfied with whatever shafts you purchase then I don't think you can go wrong in your decision .
I see people comment on always bending/breaking aluminums when they still shot them. That was NEVER the case with me when I shot them. I shot aluminum's for 23 years and was very happy with them. The only reason I switched to a Aluminum/Carbon shaft (FMJ's) was to up my FOC. It had nothing to do with the durability. I already had that with my 2117's years ago and 2216's that I just recently quit shooting.
First of all this is a great topic. Second, in any sport there is a tendency to make blanket statements like "carbon is better than aluminum" and then apply it across the board. The truth can be very different depending on what set up your using, where your using it, how far you shoot, how often, etc. etc. etc. The simple answer is this. For "most" hunters, shooting newer compound bows, carbon or carbon aluminum arrows make the most sense. Why? Because they within acceptacle allowances they are faster, tougher, better for longer distances (40+yds) and provide a smaller diameter (which at longer distances means deeper penetration) than aluminum. You don't have to take my word for it. Randy Ulmer has written all about this on his website. Aluminum arrows do have some advantages over carbon in that they can be straighter and more forgiving (once again depending on your set up). Plus they are less expensive. So which is better? My personal opinion is that if you don't shoot past 40 yds and aren't doing a lot of shooting in the off season it probably really doesn't matter either way. But if your shooting a newer compound bow and want to take advantage of it's full potential and push your own limits, hands down carbon is the way to go.
I love my Easton 2314 XX78'S and my carbons. I like playing with them both...This is how you learn. Don't be afraid to experiment for yourself.
