That shocks me Dan! I would of guessed that your bucks were much bigger on the average then what you said here. As for top deer scoring wise thats a toughy. Its hard to go against what GregH, Hunsucker, Peakrut, Walt and Todd WKP have for areas. You see pics, you read about them talking about 180" to 200" bucks that they've had around. I honestly would've figured Dan would be in this group as well on is Ontario land but after reading his post I guess not. Some of the other members on here I don't know enough about there area to really say anything without guessing. As for top end bucks in an area Troy has my vote there. I believe he shoots the best buck he can where he hunts. 180" class is no slouch anywhere. I don't think Troy has the genes that these bucks have in Wisconsin and Illinois. I'm thinking Troy's bucks are much older as well. I don't know, did I answer this one right Troy??
Don't get me wrong, we do have a good number of bucks 150+ and some 170+, there are also the few freaks that will go over 200"+. It just that genetically, the deer up here evolved to have huge bodies, not racks. I would go so far as to say we have the largest bodied deer in NA.
here's a view of one of our places in AL... lat 34°11'34.18"N long 87°58'4.39"W pretty easy to see the delineations, one dirt road to the north, hardball to the west and the bottom of the ravine to the east... here's our others... two years ago the only guy we allow to hunt this piece of land his son took a KNARLY 28pt non-typ... we estimated its age to be 7.5yrs 34°15'46.05"N 88° 3'36.39"W and (not so clearly delineated and to tough for me to explain)... 34°16'4.52"N 88° 4'16.61"W sum total of our properties in that area is about 500-550 acres and we're buyin a couple more small plots in the area as well for retirement locations
It isn't my area... Pros 1. 160 - 170 gross is a top end buck rackwise. What seems to kill us is tine length to get in the 180 - 200 range. 2. We do have mature bucks. 3. Ag and CRP so good habitat. 4. We do have a 4 month bow season. 5. Fairly good amount of good public land to hunt. Not the worst for getting permission for Private. 6. Good buck/doe ratio 7. Low competition between bowhunter for spots to hunt Cons 1. Waterfoulers run rampant here pressuring the deer out of their spots or turn the mature bucks nocturnal. Truely is a madhouse so to spreak. 2. Rifle season runs during the main rut. Unless you have control of private land... it isn't safe to bowhunt from the ground in my area. We've tried. 3. Hardly any trees with none being mast bearing. Only talking my area as other parts of ND do have areas of oaks. 4. Too many roads making access too easy for hunters. 1 and 2 wouldn't be so much of a factor if access was harder. I would pick my area if it weren't for that!! I am not afraid to walk and I can live with out trees. If I had to pick a person due to what I know of their area... Troy (shed33) has it hands down. 1. He can hunt mountians and ag land. 2. He has a large area to hunt. Private and Public. 3. He has very mature bucks. 4. Big racks. 5. Long season. 6. He can get away from the crowd. He has it all. Tim
The best ground I have ever been on that has it all...holds the following attributes.. 1. Huge bush country miles and miles butted up against massive agricultural fields that are all private. 2. Huge deer, largest body sized and as big as antlers as anywhere in the world. Current Typical World Record Hansen buck came from near by. 3. No population to speak of as far as humans go. No pressure compared to what most hunt. 4. Lightly to very little bowhunting pressure, period. 5. Bucks grow old and die of old age quite often. More mass than anything I have ever witnessed. 6. I looked at more 200 plus inch caliber sheds and bucks in a weeks time than I could have ever imagined. Or have ever been killed in my home state. Where one might ask? My buddy Dans in Saskatchewan, don't mistake for my buddy RJ Dan from Ontario. Not only did this country have some of the positive attributes I have here in Idaho, a combination of huge hideouts with massive agricultural ground... SAS has much more superior subspecies of whitetail than I hunt here. Here a huge buck is 170 plus gross.. In Sas thats a "good" deer. So for me to pick a guy from this site and since I dont think Dan from SAS or Hiawatha as he is known on HNI is a member here yet.... I'd probably have to agree that the most resembling habitat and genetics to speak of, low pressure would be from what Todd WKP describes his Iowa farms to be like or the guys from Illinois that have huge tracts of private land or who has the right piece of land in the Midwest like Greg that sits in between big tracts of big buck country. No way do I feel that the mountains that I hunt, low deer densities and moderately good genetics make the top ground. Good ground yes, top? nope! Now if a guy wants to consider everything else I get to hunt along with whitetails, well then I think Northern Idaho can give just about any state a run, ie, elk, mule deer, whitetails, bears, merriams, moose, goats, sheep etc.. Tim (TJF) as far as I am concerned from hunting here my whole life and after spending a week with you in ND already, you have an edge over here, from a pure whitetail hunters standpoint.. We both have long rifle seasons right through our rut.. you have ag, I don't unless I travel to hunt Idaho farm country..I mostly hunt mountain county/public lands.. you have many more bucks per sq mile than in these mountains.. I have the full gamet of predators which most hunters don't deal with (Dan RJ does) I have much better habitat to hide than you do, I will give you that and I dont have to deal with water fowlers like you do, but elk hunters are like bird hunters, they make a LOT of noise, they stink and they dont care where they walk, because they are after ELK! lol Yes I can get away from the crowds in a few spots and thats nice. I think Dan from RJ and I have a lot of similarities in that we both hunt Big woods/Forest lands.. But I still think he sees the odd 200 inch buck more often than I do.. we are pretty close though, hes got a little more mass, bigger bodied bucks here we get some decent tine lenght and decent bodied bucks, a big bodied buck there is 250 on the hoof.. He has ground that no other hunters have ever hunted, I cant find that here, its all pressured to some degree here we are so littered with logging roads just about everywhere a whitetail calls home. I'd rate mine as good, no complaints but top whitetail ground, not quite.
I think it's tough to beat the property that the guys in the IA/IL/Upper MO, have.. who have good access to excellent private property. That area offers the best chance at harvesting a trophy whitetail, IMO. I feel that the areas that I hunt are just as good in terms of quality/genetics of bucks, but the biggest difference is that there aren't near the numbers of deer here. There is plenty of food sources, but there isn't near the timber habitat to support the high numbers of deer that the other areas do. Plus, like many other guys on this forum, I don't have a lease or have sole access or control over any of the properties that I do hunt...& find myself hunting public land a few times a year.
i agree Joey, I put u and Scotts ground in that same type of catagory, more pressure but the great genetics which is evident from both u and Scotts trail cams video, sheds, kills.... Mike Hunsuckers ground I would throw in the top level ground.
I think it would be hard to say who has the best. Like in my case, I now have 530 acres in Zone 5 of Iowa. 30 miles from where the Albia buck was taken. About half the property is timber with tons of ravines and creeks. The other half is crp and corn. Have soy beans to the north and east. Have seen a lot of big bucks on the land, but will I take one? That remains to be seen. I think I would put this land up against anyones' for quality and numbers. No, there aren't a lot of food plots, but it has ag. I think it would take an unbiased biologist to go to every property and do a study to properly answer your questions.
I'm suprised so many pick Troy's areas. While yes it may hold big bucks and give you space to roam, there is NO WAY I am picking his areas over hunsucker, gregH, the Illinois crew, Motown, and other midwesterners. Can't forget the kansas folks too. IMO Troy, put down thost bucks "in spite of" where he lives. Ol buckeye's land is pretty good, but keeping it out of the top tier is the small parcel syndrome. Much like what I am used to here. Yes the potential for the overall area is great, but the actual access to it is so hit and miss, it makes it very tough.
I'm suprised so many pick Troy's areas. While yes it may hold big bucks and give you space to roam, there is NO WAY I am picking his areas over hunsucker, gregH, the Illinois crew, Motown, and other midwesterners. Can't forget the kansas folks too. IMO Troy, put down thost bucks "in spite of" where he lives. Ol buckeye's land is pretty good, but keeping it out of the top tier is the small parcel syndrome. Much like what I am used to here. Yes the potential for the overall area is great, but the actual access to it is so hit and miss, it makes it very tough.
You nailed my area. Overall genetics are great, getting to them on the small parcels and all the other hunters makes it pretty hard. If a good bowhunter had a nice sized chunk here all to themselves, I am sure they would have a trophy room for many to envy.
I picked it for his long season, big bucks and acres he can hunt. Stikbow26 mentioned having 750 acres to hunt. While that is a lot probably where he or you are from... it doesn't even scratch what we can hunt. We can hunt velvet bucks from summer patterning... they can't. Yes they have big racked bucks but how many have shot 180 - 200 class deer. GregH, Joey and JMbuckhunter has but so has Troy. I've shot a 160 which even in a big buck state is no slouch. 180 - 200 class bucks aren't a given no matter what state you hunt. Luck, hard work or dedication is still needed if not a combination of all three. It doesn't sound like they have a lot of acres to choose from. High bowhunting competition from the sounds of it. Land being leased and bought up just for hunting especially in their areas. I would imagine it is very hard getting permission and keeping it without a lot of cash in hand. They can correct me if I am wrong. A smile and a handshake still works for me for 20,000 acres plus acres of private. The one thing I didn't mention which I should have is the challenge Troy faces hunting his bucks. He takes the hunt to them. He has to. Same here. Hoping some big bruiser runs through during rut isn't gonna happen unless you have control of the acres you hunt. I don't. Rut really means nothing to me with the rifle free all going on at that time. Only being able to hunt a few acres would not be my idea of fun. I love roaming, scouting and never having to hunt the same spot twice if I don't want to. I am not limited as most hunters are. It is just what a guy is used to and why I picked Troy's. Course the elk, bear and turkey's come into play too. :d :d Tim
AF, sounds like some serious whitetail ground you have there, best of luck with it! I have a very good friend with right at 400 acres in Zone 5 that they heavily managed for whitetails. He and his Brother in Law have killed some great bucks on their property and will continue too. I will be hunting it with them next fall if I draw, I am sitting on 2 preference points now. If your place is anything like theirs, which I am sure it is being from the same area and from how you describe yours, I'd rank yours as top level whitetail ground as I would Mike and J's. I've never hunted the Mid west as of yet, but have hunted the Albertas Edmonton Bow Zone and was so impressed with how many deer I saw, the caliber of bucks were a step above mine here, I imagine Iowas farm country ranks right there with Alberta and Saskatchewan along with the other few heavy hitter states.
Tim, agree'd I can't imagine not being able to have access to massive public lands out here, country so big a guy couldnt whitetail hunt it all in a lifetime. Yes its accessible and hunted by others but Idaho has so much of it, you can always find a quiet place to roam if you get off the beaten path. One reason I will probably never leave Idaho or at least never quit hunting it. over 10 million acres of BLM land.. thats excluding all the state land and private timber company ground here that I can hunt too. Like Jeff brought up and you both, being able to hunt a buck from his velvet summer days to his late winter days in every phase of his antler carrying time period and on every part of his turf is pretty hard to beat. Then again big country is a catch 22 ... very difficult to pin a buck down in it with no predominate food sources, no mast trees, or small patches of cover.. hes got it all ...food water and thick shelter for literally miles in every direction.. Like Dan said, in his big woods many bucks die of old age.. Same here the bucks that reach 5 and 6 become very difficult to catch during the daylight and are more likely to die of a harsh winter, rutting stressors, predators etc... than any hunter getting a kill shot on them..
Thats gospel right there! In reality how often do you hear of someone getting a 6+ year old buck anywhere? Not just all that common I don't think. Your doing something pretty special if you do. No dought in my mind that there's been many of state and world record bucks that die of old age. They are all most unhuntable when they hit that age. They make these 3.5's seem like a piece of cake to hunt when comparing the 2. No rip on anyone who shoots 3.5's, there just 2 completely different animals on way different levels.
