Who has sucessfully paper tuned a bow with a Whisker Bisket?

So the bare shaft vs fletched shaft is only a check for spine?

 

Also remember.....Lancaster Archery Supply will sell you "one" of anything they sell (That's what they've told me, anyway). I don't order much from them anymore (not because of their service....but because I don't shoot a compound). But, I wouldn't hesitate to order anything from them.

You can order 3ea. tips of however many tip weights you think you might need. I've got several of each from 75-225gr.

Rob;Kodia:

If you're adjusting your rest....you're affecting dynamic spine (this IS a question!...lol), right? It's akin to building out your sideplate (another question!), right?

 

No, I use it for all my tuning. (No more paper tuning BS headaches for me!)

 

Yes to both with the caveat that I've gotten very good at interpreting arrow spine charts and seldom have to do very much of a rest adjustment. I do tinker with the actual arrow spine for traditional though rather than tinkering with the sideplate.

 

I don't want to change the subject but I have to ask. Don't you have problems finding readily available BH's in greater than 125 grain? If the head you want to use is not available in the head weight you tune for, what is the point?

 

Good point! :D That's why I only tune for 125 grain (compound) or 145 grain (traditional). Those are the weights of my broadheads. You can tinker with the length of the shaft and the weight of the insert though.

 

I am going to read over the Eastern tuning guide tonight so I don't ask anymore questions I can answer myself. Mind if I PM you if I have any questions after that?

 

Message away but be aware that if you have those questions someone else probably does too and could gain from the thread.

PS.) It's the Easton tuning guide: http://www.eastonarchery.com/pdf/tuning_guide.pdf

 

Using standard (for my shaft) 22 grain inserts or 50/100 grain brass inserts plus adjusting length of shaft and/or DW you can shoot just about any head out of any bow. If a person is not hung up on a specific BH there are BH's that come in multiple sizes, genrally something like 100, 125, 150, 175, 200 .

 

As do I. I don't fool with my sideplate. I figure my bowyer's a LOT smarter than I am!

In the circles you're likely frequenting for compound gear....."yeah". You're gonna have problems finding BH's in anything over 125gr. If you know where to look (and WANT heavier BH's), there's sources for screw-in BH's from 150gr (what I use, currently) all the way up to (that I know of) 225gr. If you're still wanting more weight up front, building your own (via inserts/adaptors) can yield a LOT heavier BH's.

The advice I always give is this......choose the weight BH you want to shoot....and build your arrow backwards, from there. You can adjust various things on a trad. bow to achieve bow/arrow tune....and even more on a compound. I RARELY see this done, though. What we typically see is compound archers pre-determining they're going to shoot a certain length shaft at a certain draw weight.....and then they're at the mercy of not being able to dictate their BH weight. I see VERY few compound archers who are willing to use draw weight and/or arrow length when tuning. In fact, Bruce (Lanthier) is the only proponent of this I currently know of. Commendable.

Using brass inserts (as Bruce indicated) is "a" way to manipulate tune. But I'd caution anyone doing this to not JUST rely on the added weight. Adding weighted inserts (due to their design) can affect your dynamic spine in ways you might not assume they would. I won't get into it in the open forum, unless someone's interested. But I'll say this......putting a 225gr. tip on your bow....is NOT equal to a 125gr. tip and a 100gr. brass insert.

 

I was shooting some arrows the other day for one particular bow. Some of the arrows had a 100gr brass insert and a 125gr tip. The others had a 22gr insert and a 200 grain tip. At 30 yds they are all hitting the black circle inside the green ring on my rinehart with, or without BH's. I don't see why they wouldn't.

 

Bruce:

The 100gr. (especially) brass inserts "stiffen" the last 1-(___)" of the shaft. Less shaft flexing = stiffer shaft.

I wouldn't have believed there would be that much of a difference, either....until I did exactly what I described. I bare-shafted with 225 gr up-front (on a previous bow). I then ordered the exact same length shafts, but had them insert 100gr. brass inserts....and I was going to shoot 125gr. BH's.

When I go to bare-shaft tune them.....they read too stiff.

An accomplished trad. archer I shoot with, regularly, explaine why this occurred......and it made/makes sense (to me). I can only guess that maybe the bows I'm shooting are more susceptible to such idiosyncrasies.

I have a doz. CX heritage 250 shafts downstairs with 100gr. brass inserts epoxied in (something I'll never do again....for obvious reasons)....that I'll make someone a DEAL on!....lol

 

You'd see it in the extreme with a 1.5" 100 grain HIT insert that is stiffening the last 2.5+" of the shaft vs. a real long/big 225 grain broadhead that is putting the weight more out in front of the shaft. I doubt anyone is going to go to that extreme and I doubt that you'd really even see it with a typical compound rig. I've honestly never seen an impact on dynamic spine for head changes from 85gr. to 125gr. on any compound I've shot. Traditional's a little different when you're trying to get that arrow bending out around the riser with the right paradox (not driving the energy straight behind the centerline of the shaft).

 

My head hurts............

 

Whats the benefit to paper tuning WB's?

 

Along with what Rob said I should clarify the configuration of my arrows. The shaft itself is 30" and the brass insert is only 3/8 longer than the standard insert and those two things alone would likely negate any dynamic spine disparity. Added to that, the arrow weight is 525 gr and only goes about 250 fps and the FOC is 20%.

I thought you were going to mention insert length and I believe it can have an effect but when you look at all factors then insert length, IMO, isn't a deciding factor all on its own.

I did not bareshaft with the two different tip configurations and, when it warms up and the "testing season" begins, I will but as I said BH's hit the same too.

I have another arrow for another bow that uses a 50 gr insert or the standard 22 gr insert. I shoot 100 gr (bloodrunner) or 125 gr (outback supreme single bevel) and those hit the same also. The 50gr brass insert is 5/8 shorter than the standard insert. 29" shaft, 396 gr weight, 260 fps.

 

The benefit to tuning any bow/arrow is maximum energy transfer, maximum efficiency (for that setup) and maximum forgiveness on the shot.

 

i have 5 bows with WB and I've paper tuned them all

what would lead you to think you cant?

 

Oddly enough, Bruce....we don't find the disparity with the 50gr. inserts, made by the same mfr. It's (as you noted) shorter.

When you get ready to test these....I've certainly got some "test shafts" you can utilize! I do have a shaft (same length) with the std. insert....and "severa" (lol) with the 100gr. insert EPOXIED in.:D

 

A note on removing epoxied inserts: I get a drill bit that is a very close fit, but still loose, to the inside diameter of the shaft. Remove the nock and put the drill bit in base first. The hold the shaft with the tip up and the drill bit touching your hand but inside the shaft. Swing the shaft down very quickly and the drill bit smacks against the insert.It may take a number of these "smacks" but I have been able to get abot 85% of epoxied inserts out. Now it is strictly ferr-l-tite LOL.