Back in the late 60's we cut the seat belts out of junk cars. We climbed the tree and then put the belt on and attached the belt to the tree. Then came the TMA. Thanks to TMA, every TMA approved stand had to have a safety harness. This did cut down the amount of tree stand deaths. I thought that they were much better than a seat belt, although they were harder to put on. Then came the custom full body harnesses. These are much easier to put on, even come with pockets etc. Now there are about a dozen full body harnesses on the market. Each one of them come with a suspension trauma relief belt. Ever wonder why they include a suspension trauma relief belt? A couple years ago I had a guy ask me why they include a suspension trauma relief belt. I told him because they can cause suspension trauma. He was a rock climber. He had me try his rock climbing harness and hang from it. Then I tried hanging from my harness. After trying both here are the differences I have found. Rock climbing harnesses are much cheaper, much more comfortable, easier to put on and most importantly do not come with a suspension trauma belt. They do not cause suspension trauma. After trying others from the late 60's till now, I had never actually hung from a harness. The full body harnesses hurt like hell when you hang from them for any amount of time. The rock climbing systems are much more comfortable while hanging. They are similar to repelling harnesses, tree arborist harnesses, even zip line harnesses connect in the front. It almost feels like sitting in a park swing with a sling seat. I have been using a rock climbing system now for 2 years. I've even forced myself to hang up side down because a lot of guys said it would force you upside down and then fall out. If worn properly, it will not force you upside down and you will not fall out. I don't see me ever going back to my full body harness. Any body else use Rock climbing style harness?
I have done some rock climbing and have a harness, but have never tried to use it while stand hunting. I have always used a full body harness, and it does hurt when you hang in it. I think I might try it out next season.
Holt: Rock climbing harnesses as you know are much more comfortable to hang from. They can't cause suspension trauma. Curious as to why you would use a full body harness, after using a rock climbers one?
Correct me if in wrong but, doesn't a rock climbing harness have constant tension? Wouldn't it only work properly I it had constant tension? A full body safety harness allows one to move around unrestricted while in a stand. Thus the tether system an the need for suspension relief. Now try falling a few feet with the rock climbing harness. I bet you may need the relief then. There are much more experienced people who have designed and engineered these safety harnesses. It may be better to let them do the experimenting.
Jim... don't they all connect at the waist - in the front? I would think the attach rope would be in your way of shooting. How do you hook up? Do you have any photos of you using one? I couldn't tell from your videos.
I been using my Black Diamond climbing harness for about 4 or 5 seasons...would never go back to a full body harness.
No sir they don not have to have constant tension. Constant tension is only if you have someone on the ground helping. Climbers fall many feet before the rope grabs. They use screamers and special line to help absorb the shock of the fall. It takes about a 3' fall before a screamer would be of use and there is no reason for a hunter to fall with 3" of slack. In a sitting position 6" of slack is more than enough room to be able to stand and shoot 360 degree without the lifeline interfering. As far as more experienced people are concerned, please think about this. Who has more experience climbing? Tree surgeons, arborist who climb for a living every day or hunters? What do rock climbers, mountain climbers, tree arborist have in common. They all are prepared for self rescue. They all keep the connection in the front where they can get to it when needed. Connecting in the front pulls the leg straps away from the femoral artery. That is why they aren't required to have a suspension trauma strap. Holding from between the shoulders tilts the person forward, putting most of the body weight in the groin area. This is pulling the strap against the femoral artery which can cause death by suspension trauma. Trust me when I say this. I used many full body harnesses over the past 20 years and seat belts before the full body harnesses evolved to tree stand harnesses. This is the next step in treestand safety harnesses. I do not make or sell any harnesses. I am not pushing any brand as I haven't tried them all. I will guarantee you this. No one will ever catch me using a full body harness ever again. I'm not trying to sound like a jerk or a know it all. Until you actually try them side by side you will not understand. Sorry!
Trial153: I totally understand your answer. For the benefit of those who haven't tried a rock climber, do you mind expanding your thoughts on why they are better?
I didn't mean as in people using them. I meant engineers who design them. I've used a climbing harness before just not as much as some others and never as a fall arrest.
Stick: Engineers design what people ask for. They are not contractors or tree service guys. They design around what you ask for. In construction they have the full body harnesses, they also have other people around to assist in a fall to pull you back. In tree service, engineers designed a saddle that connects in the front because there isn't anybody up in the tree to help. It is osha approved for being in a tree. If you have used rock climbing systems before, where do they lack in protection?
The most important reason is total functionality. In the event of a fall with a traditional full harness with a back tether your hanging backwards uncomfortably in a non advantage position to regain your footing on a platform or step. Compare that to sitting comfortable facing the tree in a rock climbing harness. To prove this to myself I have done both both while stepping off a tree stand platform in my yard. While it was only set up 3 feet off the ground it was a night and day difference. Both of us who tried it agreed that there was no comparison. The falls were equal in shock however, afterward it was were the rock climbing harness excelled. The fact that your alone most times while hunting brings suspension trauma into play. With a full body harness from a tree stand you don't have the luxury of someone assisting you....guys using rock climbing harness take falls every day ...and you can sit comfortable until you get your bearing and right yourself without worrying about passing out. Weight and ease of use. You can buy a rock climbing that weigh as little as 2 pounds. It goes only over your pants. So your not removing your harness when your adding or removing layers too and from your stand or while your on your stand. Why pay good money for high end outerwear only to have it encumbered by a harness. I slip into the harness and I am good to go for the walk in. At my stand my harness doubles as linesmen belt on the assent. The tether at waist hight is out of the way while I shoot. I am usually the last person to worry about cost as anyone who knows me knows I place more consideration on value. But there is a cost diffidence..you can get really good RCH shipped to your door for less then 50 dollars ...compared to 100 plus for most Hunting geared full body harnesses. I use it because it light weight, easy to use safe and more functional for my needs.
Thanks Trial for the review, I was looking at getting a lighter harness this hunting season but I am going to take my rock climbing harness out and give it a go instead. Thanks Thirdhandman for bring this topic up, I have always thought of using mine but never did.
One draw back I have seen with rock climbing harness are that they tend to run small. Rock climber sully aren't dressed to handle winter tree stand temps...Since it's going over you pants or bibs ect you need to have it large enough ... REI and Eastern MT sports have a couple brands and style that work for a larger guy...
trial153: Thank you for telling us why you like rock climbing over a full body harness. The main point here is we either have to take somebody's word or try it for our self. We have yet to have someone try the rock climber system and go back to the full body harness. Right now I'm just trying to help spread the word that there is a better system which is all that matters. In addition to better it is lighter, cheaper system and easier. I am 5'10" and 210lbs and 62 years old. Mine is a 42 waist and I put it on over my Jeans. In Winter I put my bibs and coveralls over my jeans and just connect the carabiner through the zipper in the pants of the bibs. That way my summer size fits my winter gear.
I never said they lacked protection. I did actually say "correct me if I am wrong" and it is apparent you did. To me and I haven't used one for hunting and dont plan to until the TMA deems them sage to use in a tree stand. It seems as if it would be a pain in the rear having to hook in from the front and have a strap wrapping around. Also with it being hooked in from the front if a person were to fall, it seems as though there would be some sort of twist motion as a person fell. To me seeing how most face away from the tree or point of connection, it seems that the possible twist motion could cause tangle or possible other injuries to a persons limbs that would help the person be able to climb back to a stand or to the ladder. Maybe even a frontal impact with the tree that could make it difficult to see or cause other injuries such as broken jaw, nose, cracked ribs or other injuries from a frontal impact. A rock climber is facing what they are essentially hooked to. It seems to me that the fall its more of a slide and stop rather than a sudden drop with no support. Of course again, I haven't used one for hunting and haven't personally fallen from a tree stand while using one. All these thoughts of mine could be completely wrong. Although these thoughts could be incorrect as they are merely theories, in my thought process they outweigh the possible positives. I haven't fallen out of a stand using my full body harness either. So I can't attest if they work properly. What I do know is the TMA has approved them. They have tested and said that they work and with the provided relief strap should give a really high chance of survival so, I personally will use my full body harness. As for which is a better safety harness for hunting, I guess unless someone falls out of a stand using a rock climbing harness or someone comment that has, we won't know the out come either. These are my thoughts. I am not arguing nor attempting to convince anyone else not to use a rock climbers harness for a hunting harness. Merely tossing out my personal thoughts on the matter.
Stick: I'm not arguing my friend. I'm merely stating facts from years of trial and error, teaching hunter safety and seeing what goes on re TMA. Believe it or not there are a number of tree stands that are built way beyond TMA standards and don't get the TMA label because they will not pay for it. TMA is a money making business. Since the first safety harness has been TMA approved, the TMA has been getting paid to say they are TMA approved. So lets just say a dozen companies have been paying them from the beginning. Now all of a sudden there is a new product that actually works better. What is the chance that the TMA is going to endorse the new idea and kiss away all that money. You said that you have tried a rock climbing system. And also said you are still using a full body harness. I assumed you thought they lacked in protection in some way. Sorry for assuming. Over 80% of tree stand accidents occur while climbing in or out of a tree. So over 80% of the falls occur while facing the tree. That is why it is handy to have the lifeline attachment in the front.
Hey guys and gals. Here is a video of an average Joe using an alpine bod climbing harness. Both style harnesses hurt somewhat in the event of a fall so he does grab the lifeline as he steps off the stand. While watching each of the maneuvers he does think of how it would be different is attached between the shoulders. Alpine Testing - YouTube
I've never thought much about it. I've never felt hindered by my harness, and I don't hunt northern winters where I need to bundle up on stand for arctic weather. In fact, I LIKE that it hooks from between my shoulders. I would never hang for hours anyway with either harness, I would pull myself back up as soon as I initially fell. I may look into them as I like the fact that its lower body only for layering once at the stand... but it's kind of a moot point for me personally.
TEmbry: Curious, Have you ever tried hanging from your harness, reaching behind your head to grab the lifeline, and pulling yourself back up just 1' using only your hands? For me that is impossible. I'm too weak to do that. I bet there are few over 30 years old who can.
I don't anything to add. But this makes allot of sense. I have been looking at harnesses and I may have to give this a try. I hate hour my full harness covers pockets. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
