I just like to add to this.. since I'm a bit late to the party... What's the question? (insert smilie where head shrugs) edit: I just saw the question.. its the title thread.. I'm an idiot.
Jeff, My sister paid $253.00 to hunt her mountain goat. Yes, she received it after 19 years of applying. Even then, she only received the tag after another hunter was unable to participate and turned his tag back into the CDOW. It was his loss and her gain-she got lucky! She killed her goat! At this point (will change when I'm required by law to have a guide for such critters as Griz, Dall Sheep, and Brown Bear), I have never used a guide to hunt indigenous animals in the lower forty eight, or Alaska. Nor have I ever hunted an indigenous animal behind fence (never will). I have and will more than likely continue using guides where required by law around the world. That's what law abiding people do. If I can get around using a guide (Caribou on Cree lands in Quebec, for example), I will. I've hunted exotic both inside and outside fence. I find neither side easier than the other-at least that's my opinion based upon the experiences I've had. I actually have had free ranging animals which were much easier to harvest than those behind fence. I've had my hinny handed to me on many occasions-hunting axis deer, for example. Yes, method of take means a lot to me. If I think the hunt will be easy one way, I up the degree of difficulty-Thanks Russ Barber for the alternative weapon. I always monitor my time. If I have plenty of time, my pursued stands zero chance. If time is limited, I tilt the odds in my favor. I use whatever legal means available. I am a hunter. I enjoy tasting the experience...
Well said. I'm paying a trespass fee to hunt elk on a private ranch in CO this fall. This will be my first elk hunt, the first of many I hope. I didn't like the trespass fee idea, but we were offered an excellent deal through a friend of my hunting partner. If not for this offer, I would not have been able to swing an elk hunt this year. I'm planning on using this trip to learn the ropes, and in the future my elk hunting will be DIY backpack hunts. I'm headed back to S.D. to spot and stalk antelope this summer. DIY on public ground, that's my style. I will not be packing a blind this year. I can't think of a more exciting way to hunt antelope than spot and stalk on an open prairie. Honestly I'm looking forward to the antelope hunt just as much as the elk hunt. Doing all your own research, scouting, stratagizing, just makes everything that much sweeter IMO. Would I ever go on a guided hunt...YOU BET! Obviously there are a lot of hunts anymore that require the use of an outfitter. Though I would much rather prefer to do my own homework, there are animals I want to hunt that you aren't allowed to hunt on your own. Our rifle season in NE falls during mid-November...obviously a time when all serious bowhunters want to be in a tree. The only place I could ever see myself paying to hunt whitetails is in the Edmonton Bow Zone, or a similar type area of Canada. The opportunity to hunt an area where a legendary buck could show up at any moment would be worth it to me. I'm also booked on an OK hog hunt for next March. The outfit we're using has a "hog proof" fence, so it's not Fair Chase. There will be 8 of us on this hunt, all family or very close friends. Most have never killed anything with their bows. I've got a close friend who is a diehard traditional bowhunter. He's as ethical a hunter as I know and he's hunted with this outfit for 6-7 years in a row. He told me to "take it for what it's worth and you'll have a blast". What it's worth to me is being able to share a hunting camp with my father, sister, cousin (who doubles as my best friend), his father, another cousin, and two close friends. I'm looking forward to the campfires and B.S.'ing as much as I am the hunting, and I'm looking forward to sticking an arrow through a hog. I hear they're smart and spooky as can be, and arrowing one, fence or no fence, is still an accomplishment. I'd hunt black bear over bait in a heartbeat, but wouldn't think about hunting whitetails that way. I've seen enough videos of hogs and bears being chased by dogs to know that that's not for me, but I'd shoot a treed mountain lion if the hunt was done right. I'm a DIY guy at heart, but as I've said here, if I can afford to pay a guide and that is the only way I can hunt an animal/area than you better believe I'm gonna do it. Does this mean I'm going to rip you for hunting whitetails over bait, bear or hogs behind dogs, or hiring a guide for every hunt you take...absolutely not. If it's legal and feels right to you then do it!!!
Jeff, I will do my absolute best to put an Aoudad hunt together. I recieved permission last year for access on a ranch down in the Terlingua area. The landowner told me stalking distance for a bowshot is achievable, 25-30 yds. I can take a guest. It would have to be late Jan. early February. Maybe while you are here we can whack some hogs closer to my home as well. BTW, the Terlingua ranch is free range, no fence. I will hunt over bait, in a fence,(a large,large one, but still), with an outfitter, or any legal way I choose and to hell with what anyone else thinks about it. I don't give a rat's .........
Pretty much my thoughts! Just because I can't or won't spend the money to hunt (or kill) some animals makes me No less of a Bowhunter. It's Not about the equipment you use, the spot you hunt, the numbers of species you've tagged. Some guys just don't get it. If you Bowhunt according to the laws where we are hunting. It doesn't matter to me if you are using a bow some Indian Chief made, the Newest compound, or a Crossbow then you are welcome to hunt with me. I wouldn't kill anything in an enclosure period. As far as baiting? If it's legal and you want to do it then in my eyes go for it. I have hunted Bears over bait but that's it. IMO it was the only way to feasibly hunt them in the areas where I was. Dan
I would never hunt a deer behind any fence, high or low. I really have no desire to hunt with an outfitter. Now if I was given an oppertuntity to hunt in the "Bow Zone" in Alberta I would jump on that only because you have to have an outfitter. I have never hunted pigs, but I beleive I would kill them behind a fence and think of it as "fun shopping"! and not really hunting. My desire to not hunt with a outfitter just stems from me doing my own work and calling my own shots, not anything ethical.
I haven't had to draw any lines YET...only hunted whitetails/turkey in my home state. Have never envisioned using bait, hunting behind fence, or using a guide - and don't think I will...but I never say never. I love the idea & excitement of DIY-Public Land-Wind in your face-Fair Chase hunting (love Tred Barta). Funny you mentioned the ram/sheep Jeff...Over the next couple years I'll be moving to Traditional bow...at the same time I'm starting to acquire points for a sheep. I know this will most likely be 10 or 15+ years before I draw as a non-resident...once in a lifetime sheep hunt - probably only 10 or so days to hunt...do I limit myself to maybe 25 yards with Trad bow - or pick the compound back up and shoot easily out to 50 (I'd be happy either way - but REALLY want that Ram harvest)...but the great thing is that I enjoy these kind of decisions...so we'll just wait and see.
I don't have anything written in stone. When an opportunity presents itself, I make a decision if its something I want to do or not at that time. My answer or decision to a certain situation could be different now that it will be in 10 years. For example, I do not care to hunt with a gun now, but when my kids are old enough to hunt, I very well could change my mind to spend more time in the woods with them.
Very True!! After Bowhunting for 40 plus years I guarantee you that the decisions I make compared to those I made the 1st 10 years I bowhunted are vastly different. What I pass, what I will shoot at, methods of hunting, equipment choices, etc., etc. If anyone didn't change after hunting that long and tagging xxx numbers of animals I'd wonder what was wrong with them. Dan
Jeff, did you get the "new info." on the aoudad that I sent the other day?? For "ME" it would be high fenced deer. Maybe it is because it is something I am just not accustomed to, but I just don't think I would want to hunt it. I am sure there are some ranches with thousands of acres inside the fence, and a certain deer may not ever venture to the other end of the fence but I still don't think that I would want it. Not saying it is wrong....just not for me. My dream is still to build a house on one of our farms in particular that has about a 60 acre cutover on one side. I would love to "low fence" it in ( about 3-4 ft tall) so I could keep it as a "sanctuary" type area where no dogs, coyotes etc could get in but the deer could come and go as they please. It was re-seeded in pines and is a great bedding area. So, I don't mind low fences as long as the deer can come and go easily. As for outfitters, I would have no problem using one. It would be cheaper for me to go on a trip to Canada and maybe even 1 more trip to a big buck state each year rather than what I have sacrificed in business, time, money, equipment etc. It is just something inside me that makes me want to shoot a deer on the farms that have been in our family for many years, some over 100 yrs. I can't really explain it, but it's just more important to me to reap the rewards of my work, time, effort, planning etc rather than reaping the rewards of someone elses work, time etc. even though I know that more than likely I would have to go elsewhere to get a bigger buck. For now,other aspects are overriding the bigger bucks. Others have addressed baiting. It is legal here in NC and I would say that more people in my area do it than those that do not. I have no problem with it anywhere it is legal. I have done it in the past but do not currently "put out" bait. I do have small (1-2 acre) fields that I will have the farmer plant in corn or soybeans and leave it. I will hunt over/near them or in between them. I just got to the point that I enjoyed seeing deer walk through the woods in a more relaxed state rather than approaching a corn pile looking up. Total number of deer seen has gone down but better buck sightings have increased.
Perhaps, I would pursue an exotic, in a fence...in these parts, I've been tempted to do a Hog Hunt on a ranch by our camp. My Dad even toured the place and the owner was unbelievably friendly taking them on a complete tour of the facilities. As for Deer..I don't equate a Hadley Creek type operation to a fence hunt. I'd do that in a heart beat if I had the disposable income. But any non exotic..I don't personally care for fenced in hunts. Unless the acreage was such that it didn't hunt like a fence.
It's funny for me to see the "Hadley Creek" references...all my small properties are surrounded by these guys, typically park right next to me most mornings...I'm still baffled guys pay their $3500-$4500 for 5 days to sit right across the fence from me...to hunt whitetails...and there is awesome public ground right down the road with nobody on it For that kind of jack I'm looking for a mountain hunt with endless acreage...but everyone's different...
There are no definitive lines for me. Everytime I think that I have developed some definite answer to any question that presents itself in life, I open my eyes and realize that there is very little black and white, but there are all shades of gray. Many things that I once thought were not interesting I now love to do. For example, I never thought I would want to hunt bears over bait. However, I developed a desire to try it, did so, and really enjoyed myself. Life is too short and so is my attention span to limit myself to what I may want to enjoy in the future. If it is fun, then I want to do it.
