....guys have your stands at for the first part of the season?? i mean from(for me Sep. 15) opening day to about Oct, right before you move them for the rut?? i am having some scouting trouble, trying to find sign in a timber with cattle on it is impossible. i think i will just hang one where i think they are in the timber and move it accordingly if i have to __________________________________________________ ugg boots uggs
If you have a good one patterned on a food source then hunt over it... Otherwise pick a good transition area between bedding and food on oak flat if possible.... this is the best bet either way.... usually more daylight to make good shots
I wrote some on the topic of prerut hunting that I'll share with you as soon as I find it in my files. I'll have to post it in several pages. The pre rut For my definition purposes, I'm going to define the pre rut as the time frame from the time the velvet falls off the deer antlers to the time that the scrapes leaf over initially. Try to keep in mind that even though I'll mention time frames they are not for all parts of the whitetail deer range. In the North things happen a little earlier and in the South they happen later. Around central United States the bucks generally shed their velvet the first week of September and most have shed by September the 14th. The bucks tend to stick together at this time and you'll start to see some light sparring taking place. Most of the bucks I've seen shed their velvet has happened over a very short time frame, usually less than one day. You'll roughly get one week to check out the bachelor groups in hard horn before they pull the old disappearing act. This is the time frame when hunters that have been watching a certain buck get very frustrated. The buck they have been observing in the green fields and food plots come up missing. This frustrated me for years until I inadvertently solved the mystery while doing some preseason squirrel scouting. I had lost track of a group of 11 bucks that I had been watching in a green field about a 1/2 mile away. I was setting in a group of white oaks watching the grey squirrels cutting away like crazy when I noticed several deer moving toward me. Low and behold it was the bachelor bucks. They fed heavily on the acorns and lay down between snacks. I watched them for several days from an elevated position on the hill above. I started taking note while driving along the interstate I wasn't seeing half the buck I normally do. I got to looking deep into the woods and started picking them out. They were all feeding on white oaks. I also noted that at this same time the deer were replacing their summer coats with winter coats. The bucks began only moving when it was cool early and late. They almost always would water immediately after raising from their beds and before they lay down for the day. So there you have it, a guy wishing to kill a September buck would do well to hunt over/near water or white oaks. A well placed stand downwind of a white oak that is actually being fed on is a sure bet. Keep in mind that the deer will quickly clean up the acorns and move on to the next. There usually is a mad dash to eat the acorns after a rainstorm or a heavy wind for obvious reasons. The water hole is a good place to start on extremely dry/hot days. I have seen a few apple trees start dropping at this time and the buck have them high on their list of desirables. So September and early October one would do well to hunt near water/apples/white oaks. Try to remain mobile and be prepared to jump trees if you need to. I'll move into the scraping phase of the prerut with my next post. Mini post after supper-- I got to thinking that some of you guys may not have any white oaks in September and early October. I guess you guys need to find your preferred food source and set up ambushes along travel corridors from feeding/watering areas to bedding areas. I have not hunted out West during the prerut so I won't have any definite advice to add, just merely guessing based upon what I have seen on TV and heard and read. It appears many guys out Montana along the Milk River have fairly good early season success glassing food plots and green fields from distance and elevation and merely setting up in ambush downwind along the travel corridors you observe the deer using. Just keep in mind that white oaks are like candy to deer. If you've ever tasted a white oak they are a little like a chestnut and are much sweeter than red/pin oaks. The red oaks are just plain bitter. I guess they are high in nutrients and the deer know that. Now would be an excellent time to tell you about a little trick I have used very successfully on a couple bucks. As soon as I'm driving down the road and run over some nuts and hear the popping under my tires. I take feed bags, a rake, and my 4 wheeler to the woods and fill up several bags full of white oaks every year. I store them in my out building with my whole corn for use in November after all of the white oaks are gone and the deer are starting to rely on red oak and brows. Another early season delicacy that deer like is a little green colored, banana tasting, paw paw which is fairly common here in the North East. I have also seen them hit watermelon/pumpkin pretty consistently once they figure out what it is. Persimmons come on after the first frost and around here that's usually in mid to late October along with the majority of the apples. I'm sure some of you guys have some other foods that are unique to your locale that the deer like. The bottom line is early in September and October your best hunting strategy is to hunt the food and water sources. That will lead us into my next topic of the scraping stage. That sounds fun but don't get too excited.
The scraping stage of the pre rut. Scrapes/rubs start to show up in earnest in October. You guys have seen them dotting the sides of pasture fields and logging roads. They seem romantic to us because we know that the animal causing these marks on the ground and on the trees are made by the animal we are after. Scrapes can tell us many things about the deer that made them. We can observe scrapes/rubs and tell which way the deer was standing or traveling when he made the sign. A buck will generally make scrapes as he travels along a certain route early in the season on the way to food or water sources which means just about anywhere. A buck almost always signs every scrape with one lone front foot stomp. Look closely and you'll see this print near the center of just about every scrape. This print can give you an idea of the physical size of the buck that made the track. A large hoof print of greater than 3" long from the tip of the hoof to the back of the rounded portion of the track is generally the track of larger bodied buck. The dirt will be thrown in the opposite way he is going and usually he'll make rubs on sapling as well. If you notice closely the rubs will be generally facing the way the dirt is thrown. I have a theory about hill country bucks that I haven't read much about in reference to rubs in the early season. I feel that the biggest buck in a given area will take over the highest point in regards to rubs. I'm not referring to hills like Ohio or Illinois; I'm referring to the Allegheny's. Rubs are a way for deer to communicate with all members of the herd as well as strengthening the neck in anticipation of battle. Bucks will walk up to a tree and scrape up and down on the tree with his antlers intermittently rubbing his forehead on the tree and sometimes licking it. You can get an idea about the size and rack characteristic by observing these rubs. Generally speaking all bucks rub small trees and occasionally a small buck will rub a big tree. However the damage done to a large tree by a small buck is marginal at best. What your looking for to find a large buck is a group of big trees (3+", preferably 6+”) that are really damaged. A large racked buck will rub higher on the tree than smaller bucks. Most of the larger bucks that I have pursued or taken were rubbing about knee to chest level high on me and I'm about 5' 10". The depth of the tine marks gives you an idea of the physical size of the buck that made the rub. To get an idea of how large the rack is one must try to decipher the brow guard marks and the tine marks. The two side by side marks going up and down the tree in the center are usually made by the brow guards/tines. They usually start low around the mid shin level and go up to about your waste. There should be marks on the side of the tree above these center/brow tine marks. These marks are usually made by the G2-4's (top tines). I try to find the highest brow tine mark (center of the rub) and the highest top tine mark (side of the tree) and measure the distance between the two. This gives you much valuable information such as how tall the rack is and how long the points are. The presence of shredding of the bark suggests sticker points usually around the bases. A few trees can be misleading. The presence of large rubs on aromatic staining trees such as Sumac or hemlock can be the work of 110 class bucks. It seems just about every deer in the woodlot has got to work over these trees. However, beware if they are deeply gouged or rubbed real high a small buck doesn't do that. I hunted a large buck in Ohio that tormented me for years until I finally got him. I saw him standing by the road about 4am on the way into my hunting site. He was a good 165 class 10 point in his prime. I scouted that area and found his rubs high on the ridge above where I saw him. He probably rubbed 40 pines 12-18" in diameter and pretty well tore them up. I caught him several years later late getting back to his bed in the swamp. He had gone down hill but still was very impressive for an old deer. So what have we covered?? I've suggested that you look for scrapes signed with a hoof print 3+" long. I made the remark that most of my big bucks have rubbed from knee to chest high. Don't trust a sumac or hemlock to judge a buck rack size unless it's gouged deeply. I've also told you how to measure the height of a deer rack by looking at a rub. I suggest that if you live in hill country go to the highest point and look for giant rubs. My Ohio rub line buck is below.
Continued with the pre rut scraping/rubbing stage In my last post I really didn't cover scrapes very much because I got off track and focused on rubs. I did say that you can tell the direction of travel by looking at a group of scrapes and which direction the soil was tossed. You also can tell the body size of the buck that last visited scrape by his signature front hoof stomp. A front hoof track of greater than 3", in the North, usually means a mature whitetail buck. Scrapes do provide a hunter with some valuable, usable information but they are not all they are cracked up to be. Many guys will set up on scrape lines and set for days on end without seeing the deer their after. Recent research has suggested that the majority of scrapes are made at night. This information correlates with what my hunting experience has been. In the early fall deer are focused on packing on pounds for the upcoming winter. They will shift their bedding and feeding areas based upon food availability. That is why the woods are full of scrapes in October of varying ages of use. A buck will make scrapes on the way to and from a food source. If you have a set food source that they are using like a food plot you can probably use this information but it will be tough since most of the activity takes place at night. However, if you have varied food sources the scrapes will be all over the place and are not pattern able. In other words they are made at random at night when a buck is going to a certain area to feed and that food source may be gone in a few days causing the buck to change travels again thus an entire different set of scrapes. A bucks bedding area can change at this time of the year creating more confusion. Deer don't like to move much during the daylight because normally this time of the year it's still pretty warm and they have on their winter coats. They will generally bed where it is cool and near water and the preferred food source. So if your starting to get frustrated with what I'm suggesting you should. Hunting scrapes can often be futile. However, occasionally their will be a year with mast failure and you have the deer locked into a steady source of food the scrapes can be used. You more or less must backtrack the scrapes from the food source a hundred or so yards and set up in ambush on the down wind side. You’re counting on the buck leaving his bed early and walking by your stand before it gets to dark to shoot. There is one scrape that you definitely can use the week before the scrapes leaf over in November in my hunting area. This scrape I refer to as a breeding scrape. The closer it gets to November the scrapes go from little scratches on the ground to some serious foot stomping and dirt throwing. The big boys will hit these scrapes sometimes in the daylight but again mostly at night. However, the big boys start cruising between known doe groups. You would initially think they would tear these scrapes up as they travel. It has been my experience that they don't hit these scrapes during the daylight but (get on your thinking caps) skirt them down wind and scent checks them. That is obviously good information on planning your attack. Don't set up on the scrape line, setup down wind. You might ask how far down wind? I'd get down wind from 40 to 150 yards and look for trails with big rubs if you’re after a big buck. Set up down wind of these scrapes because the big boy won't hit them during the daylight but will scent check them from the down wind side as he cruises between doe groups. The little guys go nuts this time of the year and will stupidly hit the scrapes during the daylight. If you’re not able to get in the woods to follow the scrapes all you have to do is to start observing the roadways for the first signs of an increase in the number of road killed bucks. That tells you they are starting to cruise. There is one type of scrape if you’re lucky enough to find immediately before the full blown rut starts that a mature buck will visit and work over in the daylight. These scrapes I refer to as breeding scrapes. I usually find one or two breeding scrapes every year and if it wasn't for me scouting on foot the majority of the day I would only have found several in my life. They are located in the thickest of cover and can be of very large size. I have seen them 15' across with tons of various sized tracks in them and tore to pieces. The problem presents that they are in extremely thick cover which arrows don't like. I once found one in the bottom of a valley where 5 different ravines channeled into one. You couldn't hunt it because the scrape was covered up by mountain laurel. So I have discussed scrapes from the early season where bucks make them from and to feeding areas to bedding areas. You can only effectively hunt them if you have a set food source. I have suggested that if you’re in the cruising stage of the pre rut you can hunt scrape lines down wind on large rub lines if your after a mature buck and probably along the scrape line on younger bucks during that two week period immediately prior to the scrapes leafing over. I'd like to discuss my most effective and exciting hunting method with my next post; calling in bucks immediately before the rut. I know I still haven't covered all the stages of the rut but this is exciting stuff and fits right in with the timeframe immediately before and after the pre rut comes to an end.
I have a very lengthy all inclusive document that I've written if anyone wants it I'd gladly forward it to you in an e mail. It won't fit here due to space restrictions. I believe it is roughly 90 pages of type.
I can not agree with you more on WATER... There is a hidden pond between a field and a low thick bedding area that I hunt.. I never saw deer walking during daylight hours, but my trail cam's were full (one time I had 552 pictures in 8 days)... And I remember hearing deer walking in what sounded like water.. I could not find this water for 2 years.. Last year I set up a Loc-On about 25 feet up the tree in that open area. As the sun rose, I looked behind me and found that I was sitting 25 yards from a "THE HIDDEN POND".. And go figure, I saw deer using this all day long !!!! Even at 1pm.... They snuck in using the most thick/nasty/briar trail I have ever seen, and this was why I could not see the pond. I would have to get on my hands and knees and bring 1000 band aids to get even close to the water, but they sure felt comfortable using the pond.. And this is where I will be sitting again opening week of bowseason this year !!!!!!!!
For those that have requested my document I'll forward it to you perhaps as early as tomorrow. My wife is in north Carolina and has our laptop which has the file in it.
I hunt mainly staging areas early season. I am very lucky in the way my property is set up. Very easy to get into these areas with minimal disturbance. I also agree totally on the water. I have a set up by one of my food plots that has a creek running next to it and a major bedding area on top the hill from them. Its a great set up and every night they come down, feed in the plot, get a drink and make their way to the ag fields.
Try and find staging area's that lead to a food source. With what I've saw mature bucks won't be the 1st ones out but most likely the last one's out to feed and usually the 1st ones back to their beds In the AM. Do some late summer glassing from a ways away to see If you can catch a glimpse of a buck (bucks) your after.
ground with cattle can be a pain in the arse at best, I would say trail cams but cattle can tear up most anything for no reason other then they can and will, My cattle tear down new fences,and even bent ladders on my ladder stands.. and just when i think i have got it figured out and have deer close here walks a group of cows and the deer run off. I spend a lot of time driving fences trying to round up cows that knock down the fences to get into my beans or corn. good luck
X2 I stay on the field edges for the beginning on the season and 1 stand I have in a staging area. I dont want to push the deer out of are woods or out of there bedding area. Try to hunt with as little pressure in there core area as possible. You dont want to blow them out for later in the season when you can really get after them.
In the place that is most likely going put me in range of a mature buck. Scouting, bedding, wind, food source, water scource will determine this. Like others have stated glassing during the late summer will be a big aid in this!
That is some awesome stuff, spot on. I am 50 years old and have seen just a hand full of those breeding scraps. I really don't think all bucks ever make them. I sometimes think its a very dominant buck. I always hate a real dominant buck its actually not always the best buck in the area. and some great bucks will move on. a real dominant buck or doe can clear a food plot when they walk in. and sometimes you will go a couple years and be nothing but Harmony in the plots. over the years I have seen some mature bucks that will spend years together and get along fine.
I like to hunt clover plots or alfalfa fields early in the season, but my favorite setups are the ones around white oak trees. I don't think there is any food source more popular than acorns from white oaks early in the season. Of course I will still consult my journal entries and weather conditions for each individual hunt, so that I can try to use past experiences to put myself in the right spot at the right time. Dan www.stepaheadoutdoor.com
Staging areas off points seem to be great spots to kill deer in the early season. As long as you can access the area quietly then any good point with food on it is a potential hunting spot if you have the right wind. This past season I had a good deal of success hunting points and saw does and bucks up to 2.5 year old come within range. I didn't have any big boys because I could not find their beds. I was generalized hunting based on the previous years scouting and most recent sign found in the woods as I moved into the area each day.
