i agree with some that quick said. I have wanted to hunt for years and finally decided to pull the trigger. I wanted to shoot traditional as i like challenges. I barrowed an old bear recurve off my grandpa along with some arrows. i went out bought a bag and started trying to hit it at 10 yards. after loosing 3 of the 7 arrows at 10 yards i decided i wasn't cut out for traditional and decided to try a compound. After sitting in the woods half a season last year and not even seeing anything i have upped my game and been practicing since the weather turned. I am using newer technology to help increase my chances of shooting a deer. That is not my ultimate goal though. I love spending time outside and watching wildlife around while i am sitting out in the woods. Seeing a deer even if it is out of range will be incredible as i have a respect for them i never thought possible. With me trying to get into archery in the past year my 10 year old neighbor is also trying to pick it up. i am trying to teach him not only form and how to work on his own bow but i am trying to instill in him some lessons in safety and ethics as well. He already is showing improvement in form and aim as well as getting a grasp on what an ethical shot would be and what to look for in shooting lanes (be it a hanging branch that could throw or something else). Spending time helping him learn has been some of the most memorable time i have spent in the hunting community so far.
Here's the deal........ If you want to see and shoot more deer, the fastest way to do so, is to study deer. Know your quarry. You have to figure out their habits for your area(s). This will aid in stand placement. Beware, deer don't like human intrusion. Be cautious in your approach. A mediocre shot that knows his deer, will kill more of them than a great archer that has less knowledge. I made the mistake once of letting archery take precedence over my hunting. I won't do that again. Now days, every shot I take with my 11 year old High Country, the arrow is tipped with a broadhead. Getting to know your deer herd is the hard part. It's a lot of work and very time consuming. However, it is the most fun and rewarding aspect of bowhunting for me. It's this part that affects me the most about some of today's hunters.......... they're willing to pay someone else to find them a deer. Not my cup of tea.
I agree witht he King I am new to the concept of hunting. I have never been on a hunt yet but hope to go out this Fall. I have serious problems with paying someone to take me out but I am not sure of how else get my cherry popped in this endeavor. My family has never hunted so I was not introduced to this past time until I picked up a bow on my own and remembered how much I enjoy shooting it. My boys are stoked to go but I want to get more than a few under my belt before I try to take them out. Luckily, I have a friend at work who geos every year. He has agreed to take me out this Fall if I can get what I need for it. My gear is simple; surplus camo, a LH Bear Instinct, whatever arrows I can scrounge up, and broadheads that have been given to me by other people. I look forward to it. While I enjoy watching hunts on DVD and TV, I do not understand why so many people have unrealistic expectations of their own hunt. Often these shows do not portray the reality of hunting (the wait and the missed shots). I know these happen and am prepared for them. Anyone have pointers to help me more fully prepare for something I have never done?
This Is an awesome line Greg!! It's something I believe happens more today then ever. Great post my friend!!
I think a lot of you guys are missing the point: Here's a picture taken with a $549 trail camera: Here's a picture taken with a $60 trail camera: Check out the Roman nose on that guy, especially given how young he is... I digress... I'm not here to grouse about technology. I love it. These internet forums, google maps and trail cameras are my most effective tools. What gets under my skin is how an individual can go from a first-time bowhunter to a supposed "expert" at warp speed, merely by leveraging his/her financial assets and marketing themselves as actually having a clue. They learn the jargon and look the look, and go from zero-to-hero overnight. Example: Tiffany Lakosky. She had never even picked up a gun/bow until fall, 2000. Within about five years, she's got her own show, and now, she's giving ME hunting tips. That is insulting. I think we, as hunters, are letting the hunting industry do us all a disservice by allowing people who know next-to-nothing about hunting to reach these power positions, and we're stuck watching 10 years of awful TV shows about Schwackers and girls who can shoot deer. Honest to god, I'd rather watch a half-hour program of Troy Pottenger and Tim Freund slogging around a hillside in a rainstorm, picking up 3 forkie sheds. Those guys will forget more about deer in five minutes than she'll ever know. We go out and buy the junk that they promote, which only adds fuel to the fire. We've got the Schwackers and the new Mathews and the Rage heads and the Bone Collector clothes and everything Primos. That brings me to my next point: Marketing. Marketing drives hunting. The $549 camera is from a company that aggressively markets its products. Picture 2 is from a company that just lets its products sell themselves. As you can see from the pricetag discrepancy, marketing costs can drive prices sky high. The real-world difference in quality - negligible. Archery is ruled by a 4-headed monster: Hoyt, Mathews, PSE & Bowtech. Their marketing budgets are mega-bloated, and the costs are passed on to you, the almighty consumer, in the form of ghastly overpriced equipment. It's true. And while they're not "price-fixing" per se, they have seemingly established a price "floor" for professional grade bows. I'm sure a lot of guys who rep for various companies will read this post and their ears will bleed, but I'm not on their payroll, so who am I to care? In 2006, I bought an Iron Mace from the resurgent High Country Archery. That bow came with all the bells and whistles of the big dogs (arguably more), but at a fraction of the price: $340. Factory-Direct at Dealer Cost. That was a deal that was open to the public - not just a sweetheart deal for this Archery Hero. Dealer cost is what dealers pay. High Country still made money on that bow. Now, if High Country (a company that doesn't market aggressively *probably to its own detriment*) can make an identical bow, and sell it to me for $340, why should the same bow (slightly reconfigured) cost over 2x more from one of the top companies? Marketing. Marketing drives hunting, and my view from the cheap seats is that the new generation of bowhunters is a sucker for marketing. They'd buy anything. Anything. Obviously, I shouldn't care - or should I? All of a sudden, my arrows are over $125/dozen, and they're basically the same technology as was used 10 years ago. My rubber boots have jumped from $75 to $140 virtually overnight. The gotta-have-everything mentality of this new generation IS affecting me. They're driving prices skyward and hogging up every acre of hunting land faster than the rest of us can keep up. The public hunting areas have turned from wide open lands of opportunity to strip mall parking lots. I don't care so much about gear prices, because I buy very little gear. I do, however, have an affinity for hunting land, and now I'm getting bumped off of good hunting land because some greedy new guy has entered the equation. These guys watch one episode of Bucks of Tecomate, and the next thing you know, they're blowing up Jeff Foxworthy's phone and ordering a 2-pound bag of that Booner miracle mix that he guarantees will draw in Tinezilla for the taking. Next day, they're out at the farm in a field corner pushing around a rototiller planting a 10x30' swath of Imperial Clover, and working out a land lease with the owner because they're all-of-a-sudden afraid that I'm going to shoot "their" deer in their "foodplot." It's this constant chipping-away, the never-ending battle for land that ruffles my feathers. All the while, every company or representative with a financial stake in the game is telling us to "get more people involved," "teach a new guy to hunt," "spend more money." Seriously? Of course they want more new customers. The question is: how many new market entrants can our huntable acreage really handle before the quality of the product (i.e. the deer herd) really starts taking a beating, or you start getting bounced out of your hunting spots because some new guy doesn't understand the unwritten rules of sportsmanship and fair play? Hunt-Mania is making a lot of people very wealthy, at the expense of the average hunter. I'm not afraid to say it, because I don't have any skin in the game. Good luck finding THAT article in your next issue of Field & Stream. LOL And that, my friends, is frustrating.
Fran - I'm not going to quote your entire post and respond but there's a few things here to note. 1. While you may want to watch two dudes in the rain picking up sheds for 1/2 hour, you can bet 9 out of 10 other hunters don't. Let's be honest - I don't think there's many people out there who are watching Tiffany hunt because of her vast knowledge of whitetails. Nor do I think the point of her show is to educate people on how to become a master whitetail hunter. It's entertainment. You need to keep things in perspective. 2. Comparing a $500 trail camera to a $100 trail camera with a single image isn't a fair comparison at all. Believe me - I've owned both and I can tell you that unquestionably the $500 camera FAR outperforms the $100 in virtually every category. Do they both, at the core of their design, do the same thing? Yes. But so do a Kia and a Cadillac. Fair comparison? I think not. 3. And the talk about your boots jumping from $75 to $140 "virtually overnight" - come on now. You're a smart guy. You understand inflation, the rising costs of raw materials (especially petroleum-based materials used in lots of rubber boots). If by "virtually overnight" you mean "over the last 5 to 7 years" then you're correct. However, during that time there have been many advances in technologies and materials that have made those boots (or whatever other good you're talking about) more expensive to produce. You can apply just about any of your observations here to just about any good, service or industry in the world. Prices have gone up across the board on everything, and will continue to do so. It's the nature of our economic system. People will continue to be self-proclaimed experts in every industry there is, with little to no substance to back that claim up. Why do you think political pundants and sports writers/talk show hosts are so abundant? It's the nature of who we are as people. At the end of the day, is all of this really worth getting that worked up over? You have places to hunt. You kill good deer every year. You enjoy your time spent in the woods. Are things really that bad?
JZ - all excellent points, and I hear where you're coming from, but I'm still not buying it, and here's why: 1.) Let's say that 9 out of 10 people ARE entertained by Tiffany Lakosky's TV show, and, as you suggest, those same folks would be bored stupid by watching a half-hour hunting program hosted by people who are, in my best estimation, true whitetail experts. Isn't that a sad commentary on the caliber and focus of that 90% of viewers? It says a lot when people would prefer to watch Tiffany shoot a half-tame deer and wax poetic about how she's "hunted hard" this year, and throw bones out to the ranch that offered up the free deer, over, say . . . hearing what Charlie Alsheimer has to say about a whitetail's vomeronasal organs, and how that knowledge can translate into you filling your tag. 2.) As for your assessment of trailcams, I'll take your word for it that the $500 camera is a better buy. My point is that marketing costs are a heavy part of the pricetag, and there's no refuting that. Is there really $450 worth of difference between those cameras? I think not, but everybody has their own opinion. I'm not buying an ad campaign. All I want is the trail cam. 3.) Let's not fool ourselves into thinking that the manufacturing cost of a pair of cheapo Alphaburly boots has doubled in 5 years. It hasn't. The market has simply shown that it can bear higher prices, because people are willing to pay them. Sure, costs have risen, but not 2x (in the case of the LaCrosse boots). Many manufacturers have used the uptick in gas prices as an excuse to load up on their pricing during this 10-year spike in demand. I'm sure that the percentage increase in consumer pricing hasn't been 100% commensurate with their production costs. A lot of the old school guys - they "get it." They don't cut one another's throats for hunting opportunities. They don't contribute to the mass-commercialization of their sport, and they understand that, while it's important to perpetuate our sport, it's equally important to be conservative. Let's face it - deer, turkeys, elk, etc., they are limited resources. Everybody can't get one. It's a fact. We all need to be careful what we wish for. Is it really healthy for guys who are new to the sport to rush out and invest $50-60,000 in hunting equipment, ATV's, pickup trucks, when they don't even have their own land to hunt on? That's a hefty pricetag, and the temptation is for them to see an immediate return on that investment at all costs. Whether it be leasing a piece of land out from under you, or crowding you out of your longtime stand sites, there are people out there who will go to any extreme to see themselves succeed in a sport where success isn't guaranteed, and hunting space is a hot commodity. When this type of behavior is seemingly encouraged by money-hungry manufacturers, it just hurts us all, IMO. By the way - I appreciate everybody not getting all hot-headed over this, and based on the poll results, it looks like this is a subject that's at least worthy of a little bit of thought. Good talk so far. I raise my glass to all of you.
I see a lot of ads - on TV, on the web, and in print - and I can't recall a single one that is encouraging people to do any of your above-mentioned acts. And "money hungry manufacturers"? Come on man. Is this turning into a debate of our economic system as a whole? Should we be talking about capitalism versus socialism now? Businesses are in business to make money. That's what they do. It's what you do in your chosen profession, no? After all, you are a money-hungry blood-sucking lawyer (as perceived by some). I know a lot of hunters, as I'm sure you do as well, and I can't think of a single person who is new to the sport who has spent anywhere near 50K on anything thinking it will help them achieve instant success. Do those people exist? I'm sure they do. But I'm sure there's just as many who spent obsurd amounts of money putting in a home gym thinking they'll wake up tomorrow with a body like Arnold. "Getting it", as you say, isn't about being old-school, new-school or any school. It's about being a good person and having a good ethical foundation that drives you and your decisions. There's plenty of old-school guys who would cut you out of your hunting spot quicker than you could blink your eyes.
""Getting it", as you say, isn't about being old-school, new-school or any school. It's about being a good person and having a good ethical foundation that drives you and your decisions. There's plenty of old-school guys who would cut you out of your hunting spot quicker than you could blink your eyes." Well put Justin!
Fascinating post and comments.....slowly digesting it all..... I'm slightly older than Quiksilver but find myself relating to many of his points of view. Maybe it's because I grew up hunting in the northeast as well and miss the days of old where my deer camp was all about the camaraderie and not the gear you had or the size deer you shot. It was friends and family getting together, playing cards, telling stories and well, just enjoying the pursuit of getting a deer. I sure do miss those days. Many people either moved, passed away, or just moved away as I did. For me, today, it's not easy to replicate those moments. Trying to though. The hunting industry is a huge business. One that I believe has gone marketing mad...
Manufacturers are hungry for our money, and they'll do anything to get it, even if that undermines the sport as we know it. Their campaigns are specifically designed to do one thing: Push Product. Huntography is right - this business has gone marketing mad. Why? Because hunters, as a group, are receptive to it. Three generations ago, that wasn't the case. Justin, I'd bet at least 50% of the posters on this site have invested over $50K in this sport, hoping to tilt the odds in their favor. They buy vehicles that are off-road capable, with visions of loading a big buck into the bed someday. They buy and lease land, just for hunting. They spend thousands in gear, just for hunting. They pay thousands in guide fees, trespass fees, taxidermy fees, just for hunting. They buy magazine subscriptions, window decals, deer cameras, treestands, camo seat covers, deer hunting t-shirts, all to live the lifestyle of the outdoorsman. So sit back and do the math, my friend, and you (like me) will suddenly realize how much money you really put into deer season. There are tens of thousands of dollars flowing out of each one of our collective pockets, and for every dollar that's willing to be spent, there's a store/guide/manufacturer who is willing and ready to receive that dollar. Sure, it's economics at work, but my argument is that the foundation is fundamentally flawed. The huntable acreage in this country is shrinking at an alarming rate, while the economics are going 100% in the opposite direction. Something has to give, or the average Joes are on a collision course for a big problem. Here in SW Pennsylvania, where I'd argue is home to the highest density of deer hunters in the Union, we're already experiencing these problems, and unless things change dramatically, they won't be going away anytime soon.
Man have we all missed you Fran Just to prove he is the Undisputed King of Archery, The King will hunt with a Tooth Pick, Dental Floss and a thumb tact this year and kill a deer. He's that damn good. Fun post King I have enjoyed it, Justin you made some excellent points also. Well done!!
I'm sorry Gary, I'm going to have to go high-tech and upgrade to a rubber band and one of those triangular paperclips to make my bow. I missed you too, Gary. BFF's?
Qicksilver, I now understand a little more of where you were coming from in your original post. I believe as a new hunter I assumed you couldn't stand "new hunter" at all. I am a new hunter. I have one season under my belt now. I am not your average new hunter though. Although I do want all the new gadgets and gizmos and if I could afford them, I would probably buy at least some of them. If nothing else just to see if they really do work. Thats only if I had a really nice sized salary or a disposable income the size of a pro football player. Truth is I don't. I didn't go out and buy a new Hoyt Carbon element (which if I could afford it now I would buy one and yes I have tried one out and would buy it because I like the feel not because it is so expensive though.) but, I borrowed one from a guy, it was an old Bear Black Panther. Yes, a 1991 Model "old school" 8lb hunk of metal. Once I figured out I was or at least could be a half way decent shot with one, (I went through 2 bow strings in 4 months shooting it) I then bought three more bows off a guy for $200.00. All three were old PSE's One Bandit youth, One Silverhawk, One Deer Hunter. I traded the Deer Hunter for another Deer Hunter that is different than any other Deer Hunter I have ever seen. Anyways, I will be using the newest one this season. I didn't grow up in a hunting family. My dad and I shot guns, reloaded and talked guns all through my up bringing but, nothing more than fishing for brim every now and then. I grew up in a neighborhood that had very little woods. When I could get away from the house long enough, I would go play in the creek, walk the woods and watch squirrels and any other animals I could see. I started hunting because I have always wanted to but, never did because I didn't know of any land anywhere that I could hunt and not be intruding on other hunters. I didn't want to hunt on public land because I wouldn't be able to put forth the effort and time that I thought was a necessity to without someone else ruining a hunt. I moved out to what was then my girlfriend and is now my wifes families property last year. This opened a whole new world. 200 acres that hadn't been hunted in over 25 years. This was it, my chance at something I had wanted to do since a small child. I took full advantage. I read and read and watched and watched, Magazine articles and Internet articles, T.V. shows and anything pertaining to deer I could before the season opened. One of my brothers had a bow and both of them hunted for 5 seasons. I invited them to hunt it with me. One of them borrowed a bow (The Bear Black Panther) from a guy he knew. I shot a couple hundred arrows and went out into the woods. I missed my first two deer. I still have yet to arrow one but, I did harvest 2 with rifles. This entire season will be all bow, no rifles at all. Rifles were OK but, left an empty feeling almost as if I had cheated. I haven't ran anyone off the property (except one of my brothers who made an unethical move last year) or moved in on anyones honey hole. I have since been tracking, watching, looking and studying every aspect of my heard. I know where they travel, where they bed and where they eat now. I have started prepping stand sights, mineral stations, food plots, lick sights and anything else I can think of now so that I can stay out of the area's after July. I haven't bought all the latest and greatest, I make my own attractants other than buying Evolved Harvest Shot Plot seed and Deer Cane to be used this season anyways, I don't have more than $800 in every thing I own, Treestands and bow included. Even if I could have afforded a brand new Hoyt, Mathews, Bowtech or Elite bow i wouldn't have until I knew it was something I was going to do for a while at least. If I am able to buy anything this year it will be a new rest for my bow, a couple more hang ons, maybe a new sight, and a trail cam or two If I am able too. As far as Tiffany's T.V. show, I had no Idea she had one or who she was until I Googled her 20 minutes ago and if I do watch it now, it will be so that my wife will be inspired to get out in the stand some more this year. I know your opinion on a woman hunting but, she is different than most. She is a true born and bred southern country girl. She has spent more time in these woods than I have in any woods. She is also my best friend and we do a lot of things together. Maybe thats why Levi and Samantha Morgan hunt together and have their own show now. Not just a marketing ploy. They were both hunters and professional archers long before they got a show. I can see how you have became so bitter in your old "hunting" age ( I don't think you ar old as I too am 32). Especially if you are not able to own your own property to hunt on. If it weren't for my wifes family owning this property I wouldn't be able to hunt. If it weren't for her Grandmother going to be giving us her land soon, I would not have a secure future in hunting that I will pass on down to my sons. IMO, we are all hunters and we all should enjoy the same things. Maybe with different factors in different ways. There is nothing we can do about the way it has formed over the years but, we can adapt best we can and unfortunately, if we want to continue to hunt, we will have to adapt. Oh and if you are ever in the Charlotte, NC area and want to try out a new hunting place between September 15th and January 1st, let me you will be out this way and I will lend you a stand. I have enjoyed this post even if it has sounded like I didn't a couple times.
There is no doubt in my mind that if sat down and talked to you Quiksilver that we'd agree on almost everything you said. It is difficult to gather what you are writing when I have never talked to you before and only have several paragraphs to discern. By how you have replied to comments, I'd agree with you that the "hunters" you most dislike are the same I would not really consider "hunters", rather shooters. My hunting buddies are basically "old school". You're not out of touch with today's hunters, but the "wantabee" hunter. There are not many people on tv that I get advice from. Tiffany, along with others on tv, has hunting opportunities that I'll never have the advantage of. I can count on two hands the number of 3.5+ year old deer that I've seen in 25 years of deer hunting in the state of Michigan! It's not for lack of knowledge or effort, they just don't live that long with all the pressure. I sure am glad I get to do some hunting is WI. I see more bucks there in 4 days than I see here in 3 months. Too bad it's in a CWD area - the deer numbers are getting crushed. You really got people thinking with this post. Sure looking forward to meeting some of you at the GTG.
