I currently shoot 30" 340 Beman MFX at 68lb. I know my FOC is way too low (less than 9) and I am interested in how that affects arrow flight. Also which vanes are best? Drop away or not? I am using a Whisker B and like it but am I missing something better? I am pretty good at bow tuning but was wondering about setting up a drop away and the reliability of one. Shot fingers, flipper rest and heavy aluminum 2219s for over a decade until a hand injury forced me to shoot with a release. Don't like it much but that is my reality.
I had a biscuit and thought my problems with constancy was human error when I first got my bow. But once I put on a drop away (trophy taker) it was dead on consistently. I shoot a 2005 Mathews Switchback, 350 Carbon Express Maximas with blazer veins. I'm not a professional shooter by no means, but I can hold consistent tight groups with it. I believe that the whiskers never allow the arrow fletchings to pass through the same twice, which will affect the arrow differently every shot. Just my $.02 good luck!
I currently shoot 350 Carbon Express Maxima's with 5 inch vanes (27 inch) through a whisker biscuit. I have no complaints and totally love them!
This guy explains FOC much better than anyone else: http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/PR/Ashby_EFOC.pdf The best vanes are feathers, IMO. I prefer a drop away. All I want is shaft support as the arrow takes off, not all the way past the fletching.
I used feathers when I shot fingers. Solved all kinds of problems for me. With a 30" draw, arrow tuning was an issue for the 80 lbs I shot back then. Which Drop Away do you use/recommend. I am not really having any issues with my WB but just don't believe it is quites as consistent as it could be. And I need new arrows anyway, so if I am going to make a change, now is the time.
I prefer the original Limbdriver by Vaportrail. As long as they make that I do not forsee using anything else. http://www.vaportrailarchery.com/arrow rests/ side note: Not that yours wasn't but, in my experience, tuning is easy, even with vanes, when the arrow is built with the total setup and dynamic spine taken into consideration (at least, that is what I think and have experienced). With a 30" draw dynamic spine would get special focus. At 68#'s, 30" draw I suspect your 340 Bemans are close to being weak even with 9% FOC. If you are wanting to increase your FOC you are looking at dropping your DW and going with something in the .300 or less spine.
So 300s may be better you think? I know I am right on the borderline. I do like the way Snuffers shoot though and have considered going up in weight but wanted to keep the BH weight down because of my spine. Of course that causes a lower FOC and more possible tuning issues with my vanes. Its funny how everything is a system that has to work together.
Okay, I ended up changing my string and put on a drop away and bought some new arrows with the NAP Twisters. They don't spin at all and they are all over the place on the target. I kept thinking I was doing something weird but finally went back to my Bemans with 4 inch right helical vanes to check and I am dead on and broadhead tuned within an inch at thirty with Muzzy's and within 2 inches with Snuffers. Now I have got to convince the archery dude to either let me exchange/upgrade the Easton Axis arrow I just bought and had cut to 30 inches or pay to have vane/feathers put on them. I can now shoot feathers, tell me about shooting feathers on 17/64 carbons. Will they fit okay and can they be right helical?
What is the spine on the new arrows? If you can fit vanes on a shaft you can fit feathers. Helical should work and you may even be able to offset the helical. Do you fletch your arrows? If so look into using feather fletch tape. You will never use vanes and glue again.
This? http://www.bowhunterssuperstore.com/bohning-feather-fletching-tape-p-3027.html Put it on the feather, trim it, put it in a Jig, peel the backing, then stick it on the arrow? correct? Stayed with 340s according to the Easton chart, though that is considered marginal with the Bemans. The Eastons are also .9 gpi lighter. Edit... Okay I called the shop and explained the arrow flight situation. He agreed to allow me to exchange the arrows though I am very surprised about that? I asked for 300s with 4 inch right helical and I stupidly let him talk me into going with the 340 shafts but I rechecked and the Beman chart definitely suggests 300s for 30 inch draw at 68 lbs. I am thinking the issue may be more spine related than it is a vane issue, though I have had good performance from my Bemans. My Arizon fletching jig won't work with the MFX shafts so I will have to ask him to do the fletching for me or I can get it done somewhere else. He said he hasn't sold a 4 inch vane in over 3 years which I find really odd. I am thinking 4 inch feathers on 300 MFX shafts at 11.1 gpi, right helical should be sweet and very consistent.
That is the tape and that is just about how you apply it. I will also run my thumbnail up and down the tape once it is applied to the feather to get good adhesion. Then, once it is on the shaft I will run the edge of my thumbnail along the base to push it down on the shaft some more and will also run the feather between thumb and finger while pressing down on the shaft. I have pulled shafts through bag targets and the feather stays on without any damage. I am sure the issue is spine related (too weak) with a touch of too light FOC thrown in. The Bemans are a touch heavier so they will be a touch less reactive hence the better performance. You will have many more issues (erratic flight, tuning problems, etc.) when the spine leans to the weak side more so than if the spine is a little to stiff. Once you get your arrows (.340's) try dropping your DW by about 5 pounds and see how it goes. You should have insisted on the .300's.
He said he'd take them back and I will insist on Beman MFX 300s. He said they are hard to find but I know they are available with relative ease at Bowhunters . So I will just wait for what I know I should be shooting or go somehwere else. He's one of those guys that just tells you that your are doing everything wrong if you don't shoot like he does... he doesn't recommend BH tuning, "just adjust your sights." I accidentally cut the string on my Hoyt and he is the only Hoyt dealer around here... I almost cried when the Bowtech/Matthews shop wouldn't change the Hoyt string for me and told me I had to go to him. I had similar problems with aluminum once and it was amazing the difference stiffer and heavier arrows with feathers made. Hey there is a house for sale next door to me. Interested in moving to Alabama? Thanks, I think I've got it from here.
I think you over thinking alot of this, use what shoots good for you. I love Gold Tip XT hunter arrows and have for years and I use a whisker biscuit. I can shoot groups in the 2" range at 30 yrds consistantly. The biscuit is a proven hunting rest for sure. Love total containment and No moving parts to fail as with drop aways at some point their going to fail, when is the big question. The biscuit is simple to tune, simple to use and I think that makes some people wary, as this stuff isn't suppose to be that easy or so they think Go to trophy ridge and look at Pig man shooting a biscuit at 100 yrds that should prove the worth and ease of use!
Thanks, I have seen the pigman and have shot the Whisker B for the past 5-6 years. No complaints. I am just at the point where I need new arrows, strings etc... because I have finally used up my supply. I have known for some time that I was marginally spined at 340 and have seen the rise of the mini vanes over the past few years. Never used them until now and don't like them much with the 340s. I can afford to give up a little speed (at longer ranges) in exchage for greater consistency. As most shots for me are under 20 yards but likely to be through a hole in a honey suckle thicket, I can't afford wobbly arrows. Additionally I have been fighting some pretty serious glaucoma with some optic nerve damage and I just don't see very well in low light so I need as much accuracy and as big a blood trail and as short a tracking job as possible. Getting old makes us re-examine some things. I will probably be buying a new Lab Puppy for tracking this spring. I had one named Rebel that was an amazing blood trailer but died about 8 years ago. Thanks for the input and sorry for the TMI.
No problems and I agree I'm not young my eyes sure ain't what they used to be. I'm 43 and looking at bi focals soon enough. I will agree I would rather be a tad over spined than under. I shoot GT XT hunters 75/95 with a PSE XS 28.5 DL and 100 grain slick tricks very good shooting setup and with a biscuit a stiffer spine arrow is better than a weaker one. I could care less about speed and get good groups and consistant groups with this set up. Great penetration for sure. KE is very good fro my draw length and shooting 61lbs. In my 30's I was a 70 lb man, I come to relize speed means little for anyone shooting a quite bow at or under 40 yrds, give me great groups and awsome penetration over speed any day. The biscuit likes a stiffer spine and won't fail you! I don't like the 2" vane craze either with a fixed blade head I use Vane Tec 3" vanes and they fly great and stand up very well to the abuse of a biscuit. Good luck to you on your quest!
Following up... I finally got the 300s yesterday with 4 inch feathers. First shot at 18 yards was 3/4 inch left with a 125 grain Snuffer. Second shot at 30 was about 1 1/2 left and third shot was about 2 inches or so left with the snuffer at 40. I then shot a field tip at 40 and hit the same hole that I hit with the Snuffer. Then I simply made a slight adjustment with my sights and shot about ten more times with both field tips and Snuffers and seem to be hitting the same regardless of the tip. I did see a tiny bit of wobble but I think the wind was probably the culprit there as it was blowing gusts of 25-30 and I wasn't seeing it every shot. Very pleased and thank you all for the help you provided. I have been bowhunting a long time but am still learning a lot from from the experiences you all share... Especially Bruce
To the RED: You'd be surprised how much the difference really had to do with the SPEED of the arrow being so much slower.... Sounds like your BT/Mathews dealer may not be a whole lot different than your Hoyt dealer if he won't help you out with the Hoyt. Glad to hear in the end you got it figured out. I usually zero a pin, do a walkback, and then a BH tune, and am pretty happy with where I'm at. I have occasionally had a set-up that no matter what I did, I just wasn't happy with it, usually it came down to fletch contact or weak spine.
Spine... this time. I still do like heavier, quieter, and a little slower. Though the speed difference was not as noticeable as some may think. I still prefer to shoot fingers... it's just the bows these days aren't made for finger shooters.
