I have a desire to kill one, but it just reminds me that I've got a snowball's chance in hell of killing one where I hunt.
All measurements are done the same way as P&Y, but there are no deductions for non symetrical bucks or bucks that have, say, 5 on one side and 4 on the other. All of it would be counted. The only thing that would not be counted or deducted would be any abnormal points. This is for a typical. In Dink's case, the big fork would not be added or subtracted, if it were measured as a typical. For a nontypical, you just add up the typical rack and then add the total inches of abnormal points to it. Pretty simple and straight forward. Here are the score sheets for SCI... http://www.scirecordbook.org/docs/methods/Method_17-T.pdf http://www.scirecordbook.org/docs/methods/Method_17-NT.pdf IMHO, this is by far the best method of scoring and most fair. So, again, screw P&Y and B&C!
My beliefs are pretty much EXACTLY in line with Dan as he's eloquently stated them in this thread... and it appears most all of us, too. I only refer to a deer's GROSS inches when I'm talking about a deer's score... Nets are for fish, period. My biggest scored 167 1/8... I have no idea what it netted. I'll tell you it was less than an inch difference from side to side, so it would have scored very well on the crappy net thing, but I don't care. I only care that he grew the bone -- PERIOD. I'm honest and up-front with people when I talk about my deer's score(s)... I tell them straight-up... he grossed such and such.... If someone ever asks me what he netted (which believe it or not, NO ONE EVER HAS!!!), I tell them I have no idea -- because I don't. And I don't care. One of the main reasons I've never entered an animal in the books and never will... my 167 1/8 would obviously EASILY make it, as would my 74" speedgoat and a couple other of my whitetails... but you'll never see any of them in that stupid book.
No problem Bro...that deer, the shot and the season deserve respect. My analogy was because I have a 3.5 yr old GA (I accidentaly put 2.5 in the previous post) deer that goes right at 130...he is almost perfect as far as deductions go, just enough mass (not much), just enough tine length and spread to get there...but the main thing he had was symetry (sp). I showed my wife a picture or your deer and told her mine was bigger, she giggled..then I explained what I meant and she said that's crazy, they are not even close...:D:D...I sure love her:p Again I have no problem with any system because as humans we always want/need to base/judge/compare our success against something, and we will have different views on how we do that as well. Makes it fun.
Sorry Dan, I read your first response too quickly. You are spot on! No, I did not know Dallas Safari Club dropped the SCI method. I have several hunting experiences which would make P&Y. I'm like Greg, it ain't going to happen.
Therein lies the problem in my eyes....... So what is it, REALLY? It's an antler contest (more pointedly.....a symmetrical antler contest). IF your idea of a "trophy whitetail" is based SOLELY on antlers, then you're probably OK with this scoring system. I've said it before, though.....Last time I checked, whitetail bucks didn't/don't store their savvy/elusiveness/etc... in their antlers.
I agree Jeff, I actually don't feel I can contribute anymore to this thread because I really have no dog in the fight. I think all the systems have their place, but I simply LOVE, I mean really LOVE seeing the deer you guys post. Does, bucks does not matter, I like seeing deer. We have some guys on here that are members and feel that the club really does good for the sport...so I believe in it for those reason to, whether that is P&Y, SCI...etc
I've Killed P&Y Whitetails, Elk, and Bear. I've never entered one and never will. An older gentleman told me years ago that if you think it'll look good on the wall. It will look good on the wall. Crick, That Buck is a trophy in anyones book. Congrats!! Dan
It's one way to measure a buck. Like everything else in life we, as humans, love to measure things so we can posses them. To each his own. Cold to you and cold to me is different. You? maybe 30 degrees. Me? maybe -15. I can be cold in 45 degrees and feel warm in at 0. It's all relative. It's a certain way to measure something. There are always flaws when you take the subjective and try to make it objective. Shoot what you want to shoot... but if you are looking for a way to compare that to another buck, you can look at P&Y or B&C. If you don't like it, come up with a better way or ignore it. Just my 2 cents.
There is a better way, but most don't know about it. Thus the reason many of us have been talking about it and bringing it to light in this thread.
I like this......... while I don't care much for the net scores of P&Y or B&C, I like the gross scores. That is really all that I look at anyway. I have killed several bucks like bloodcrick's that more than gross P&Y but won't net it. I really don't care, they still rate excellent with me. A couple of these bucks rate higher with me than some of the ones that did make the book. Like Fitz said, it's just another way to measure your buck. Another reason I enter the ones that do make it is because that is one of the ways I donate to an organization that helps hunting.
Exactly why I have never entered any of my deer and don't have plans to anytime soon... If they grew it, count it - that's the only score I care about....
People tend to forget about this all to often on here!!!!! The P&Y club Isn't just about entering bucks Into a book. I was a member long before any of my 2 animals were entered In there.
Don't take this the wrong way, but what is it that they actually do? Their website says they are 'involved' in conservation with grants now around 100K - to be honest that doesn't seem like that much spread out all over. I've seen and even hunted numerous properties that the RMEF has bought/supports/etc for example, but haven't personally seen anything that says "sponsored by the P&Y club". Again, not trying to bash them - just curious, there has to be someone that knows more about them then I do....
If they'd open up their books (accounting ledger), I'd think about joining (or maybe I wouldn't). If you're a member.....and you get an accounting.....how much is spent sending the powers that be within the Org. hunting, every year? Is the ledger something you could post up?
I am willing to bet almost (90%) all of you if you were on the borderline of having a world record buck you would have it scored and entered for the net score. Its a club hence P&Y Club if you dont agree well you know what to do. With that being said lets come up with our own BHC scoring system which would probably be gross score counting the spread. I believe the buckmasters scoring system does not. Figure out a way to keep track of registered users here that want to enter it into this BHC system. Maybe charge a couple bucks and at the end of the year donate the funds to charity or something. Anyone interested or want to throw out some ideas? I think would be cool to have our own right here on this very site. Kind of like the 200 club. T
I would like something within the system to calculate the mass of each tine. So a 10 inch skinny tine is worth more than an 8 inch tine with loads of mass?
"I just lost all desire to kill a P&Y...really I did. That's rediculous" this statements says exactly how I feel. That buck crick killed is a dandy, and I would be honored to ever take such a magnificent animal.
With the way hunting has evolved today, in that there are lots of leased properties, game farms, and lack of land to hunt on, to me a Pope and Young Quality buck pretty much means that the person who shot it just has access to land to hunt big bucks. I mean if you have 100 acres posted up, you let those deer grow big enough to reach PY status, don't let anyone else hunt the deer, how does that compare to logging on public land hundreds of hours for one chance at the big boy? Or paying money to hunt and choose your buck? Or sneaking on illegal property? Do you think everyone is honest? The record books just don't mean that much to me. I have to talk to people and figure out how they hunt before I start thinking they are a good hunter. How many times have you heard "oh he gets a deer every year", and then find out the reason he gets a deer every year is because all his buddies drive deer to him all season until he manages to hit one!!! Ok rant over. That is an awesome buck you shot!
