What do you think about archery shops charging for everything they do?

Looking for some of your personal feelings and input here...

What's your thoughts on paying for EVERY thing a shop does for you in regards to tuning and other miscellaneous tasks? I've seen where shops have a "schedule of fees" posted that lists everything from paper-tuning for the customer (an altogether different topic :d ) to waxing a string...

What do you think is fair to charge for? What's going overboard, in your opinion? Why do you feel that way?

Beware... the person who takes the time to answer this the most coherently may have their name published in a back-page column in a national archery magazine... LOL. Seriously, I'd appreciate your thoughts!

 

When I walk in to any business I expect to spend money if I expect to receive service. I do the majority of my own work now but if I'm in a shop and need something done I don't expect any freebies. I don't do electrical work for free unless its for family or very close friends, why should the guy behind the counter work for free?
as far as a price list goes I think thats a great idea. No surprises that way, everyone knows up front how much swapping out that string,peep,sight, etc. is going to cost.
Bottom line is I want my local shop to be there next week, next month, and next year. If he can't pay the bills he can't keep the doors open.

 

Ok ill bite..!

In my eyes the pro shop industry is either going to be all or nothing depending on how you run it. I have only dealt with four different "pro" shops with only two of them I could actually consider "Pro"....both of them being owned by the same family. I have been charged for little things in all shops and also have not been charged. I think initially no matter what, if it is someone new stopping into your shop, then yes charge them for every thing that needs to be done. It takes establishing a customer base to be able to skimp on the little charges. If the same customer is back on a consistent basis and not just the "day before guy" that comes in and expects the world out of the place once a year the day before the season comes in then why NOT give him a break? It all boils down to how much respect the shop owner has for you as a customer. Its the not charging you for simple things that keeps customers coming back, even if the shop charges you more often then none it's still the thought that 'Hey he did give me a break the last time'!
I myself am now driving 45-60mins rather then 5mins because of a couple things. I trust them more, they dont care if you shoot a different brand then what they sell, and they dont charge me for every little thing but there is that fact that I will be back. They know it and I know it and its all good!!

 

I'll be the first to bite in saying that the shops who nickel and dime you for everything down to dental thread tie ins are a big turn off for me, and many I know. Sure it takes money to keep the doors open, but charging someone $3-5 to tie in a peep, won't keep the lights on. Shops need to sell items. To sell items, they need good service and competitive pricing. Some of them seem to be a pitfall in, buy from here and the setup is free. Buy elsewhere, and you will pay dearly come setup time. It sucks because I have seen quite a few shops who charge outrageous prices for their items and offer free setup, but if you buy elsewhere for sometimes up to half the price they charge, they want your soul for the 3 minutes to put it on. I think a fair medium is to charge for the bigger things such as paper tuning, installing strings, serving strings....then others are best left as a nice guy favor, such as adjusting poundage, letting the chrono be used with range time. Heck, the last shop I was in had at the bottom of their price board, "stabilizer setup"...Seriously?! lol

Their money isn't coming from these nickel and dime installations, it is from sales. I think they should only charge enough to finally get their equipment paid off and leave it at that. BUT, I have been around some pretty crappy shops that have driven me to do most stuff on my own now. I agree with Jeff that the shop I like and actually buy from...preferred customers get preferred treatment. I don't think he has EVER charged me for dropping off a bow for throwing on some strings, or retieing a peep, or stuff like that. But I bought my bow from him as well.


I just prefer to do things on my own when at all possible to avoid the headaches with most shops. Prices from online stores will never be matched locally either. I usually stop in at my shop for nothing more than a sandwhich, a coke, and to shoot the bull with the owner for a while. His shop is setup as half grocery/country store and half archery shop. He doesn't entirely rely on bow revenue to stay afloat this way. He can offer the same stuff a full time shop does, without all the bs involved with most.

 

I have never understood how an archery shop can stay profitable when they spend so much time doing something that may make them $5 in revenue. If you buy a gun in a gun shop, they hand you your gun, tell you there is no returns after 3 days, and out you go. The faster the better as far as they are concerned. If you want optics on it, then you better put them on yourself. You want to sight it in? Well, that will cost you an hour of range time. However, we all (and I say we b/c I do this as well) expect an archery shop to spend 10 minutes to put a new peep on our bow string, get it turned and settled correctly, and ensure that it is at the right height for us before we walk back out the door. When we do this the employee spends 10 minutes at their pay rate to help us with a part that made them literally a few bucks before accounting for payroll, taxes, rent, utilities, etc. The shops around me do all of this free of charge. HOW??? Gander Mountain is the only place around here that charges for any of that. God forbid someone actually buys a bow because that quickly becomes an all day affair for them. All day for maybe $1000 in gross revenue. They help you paper tune it, put all your accessories on it, even sight it in on their range. It is simply amazing that they can get away with not charging for these services, yet somehow they must and I appreciate it every time that I go in there and I repay them with loyalty. Their service is the reason I don't buy broadheads, sights, releases, you name it, online. To put it in an odd way, it is their seemingly bad business that wins my business.

The only shop around here that charges for the little things that you mentioned is Gander Mountain. Honestly, it is the total lack of knowledge possessed by their staff that keeps me from shopping there, but the fact that they charge for these services that I know I get free elsewhere doesn't help either.

 

If it were me, I would add to the bottom of the price list, "Prices apply to products purchased outside the confines of this store" I completely understand a guy not wanting to set up a bow for free when the bow was bought elsewhere.

 

Agree totally with Tembry , when i got into archery my shop guy couldnt remember my name from one time to another. after a couple years of $$$$$$ he remembers me ! OR he sees a sucker ? lol no seriously once you get on a personal level atleast in my experiences service follows as it should.

 

Actually, I'm pretty lucky with the shop I go to. As long as it's purchased there, he'll change, adjust whatever you want & not charge you. Say if you buy string, he doesn't charge to put it on the bow. I've had him adjust my bow a couple of times, or look at me shoot or at the bow, and he didn't charge. I know other shops that do as you say, and charge for every little thing. Hence, the reason I don't go to those shops. They shouldn't charge you labor for every little adjustment. You pay higher prices in shops for the service quality.

 

I don't think I like the idea of having a "menu" with prices on it. With that being said I do believe that a shop HAS to charge for services provided (more on that in a minute). People have to understand that the shop manager is being paid to be there and his salary is no different than any other cost of doing business. Instead of a "menu" of services, I like the shops that advertise a hourly rate, the same as an auto mechanic or even an attorney does. This allows their customers to know that there is a charge for services, but allows the shop manager to determine to charge or not. For example, at the shop I go to, there would not be a charge if a customer needed help with adjusting their sights. However, if a customer came in and wanted new strings and cables put on his bow, a D loop tied, peep adjusted and tied in and the bow paper tuned, then there would be a service charge.

Is this fair? I believe without a doubt it is fair. Would you expect to go to a flooring store and purchase new carpet for you house and have them install it for free? No, so why should the shop owner eat the time it takes to work on a bow?

I also agree that it should be up to the shop if they want to charge this fee or not for certain customers. I would not charge a guy that has spent 1000's of dollars in my shop because I knew I would make my money from him at a latter date. But the guy who buys a bow on e-bay and then expects me to piece it together for him, he will be charged every time. I really don't see where there is a problem with that.

 

In general:

When you take your car to the shop they have a schedule of fees and charge you for everything they do.
When you take your computer to the "computer fix it shop" they have a schedule of fees and will charge you for everything they do.
When you take your TV to be repaired they have a schedule of fees and will charge you for everything they do.
I could go on but you get the idea.

Now, if you are a repeat customer, loyal customer, etc. then likely you will get a break on service at any of those places. That is just good business. It is not good business to give away services/goods for free to everyone. I expect a quality archery shop to be run like a good business.

 

I dont mind paying for their services. Time is money and it certainly take time to get a bow set up.

 

I've been on both sides of the counter. There are very few individuals that I would ever let touch or work on my bow other than myself, and if I needed someone to do so, and if they were one of those select few........I'd gladly pay for their service.

I think an "a la carte" style menu or list of services offered along with prices is a great thing to have. Customers have the proper expectation, don't get a surprise when it comes time to ring out, and they don't have to be uncomfortable and ask before you do the work. It also allows them to clearly see if you choose to charge them less without you having to point it out to them.

No one is getting rich in this business, and it's important that customers understand that you are investing in the future of your business by charging for your services. Unfortunately bow shops seem to have pigeon holed themselves into training customers to expect a discount. No where else do I see this, you don't buy brakes for your car and expect them to be intalled free. You don't buy sheetrock and studs and expect a contractor to build for free. These people need to charge for their services so that they can stay in business, and I would imagine more shops would stay in business longer if they did the same. Just MHO.

 

Here's the basic deal; if the shop doesn't make money then it won't exist and you'll either have to learn to do it yourself or find another shop. That being said, having a list of fees and actually charging for them is two different things. If I've got a list of fees up there that says for instance: String Waxing $2.00 and I don't charge you for it you think I've done you a favor. In reality I never planned on charging anyone for it to begin with. It gets you to walk out the door happy and return for repeat business at a later date, which is worth more than the couple bucks I may be out.

I found the best way to go when I was managing a shop was to do an hourly rate, same as gunsmithing; $45/hour bench time, $65/hour machine time. That way if you've got high quality equipment that's easier to work with you pay less. If you've got frustrating crap equipment that drives me nuts to adjust and set up then you end up paying a bit more, only fair. It also simplifies the billing. You pay for parts and equipment plus the hourly labor. Plain and simple.

 

Well here is how I see it, (I don't own or work in a proshop), The guy in the shop is going to have to make the assement on any given client. I've gone to my dentist on occassion and had the Doc tell me..."no charge today"...so guess what, I will not change my Dentist and down the road I'll pay for several of his vactions...same thing with the auto shop I take my cars....He also has said ..." no charge for that "...I drive along way to go to that shop.

Now obviously if a shop does that for everyone, he will not make it....so he/she will have to make the assemnet of "do I want that guy coming in here and spending all day babbling to me about lining up his broadheads with the fletching, while I got things I could be doing", or "man I think this guy has potential and will appreciate my shop and bring in other clients"

The shop owner has to figure out those dynamics...and the ones who prosper are good at it.

SB

 

One thing to remember is that you need a bow press for many things. My current bow will go on my old style press, but these parallel limb bows are risky to put on a press, even an X-press from what I have been told. It seems to becoming a time when archers will need the shops to do the work in the event that their bow cracks on the press. Just a thought. I could be wrong.

 

I like that distinction between in-house bows and and outside bows.

 

x2, talk about taking the guess work out of it.

 

Quite simply, a shop is in business to make money. If they don't, the doors close. It's just that simple. There isn't as much money to be made as a pro shop owner as one would think. The tech who works on your bow; his time is worth something as well. You just cannot make money by giving things away.

If you were to by something from us, ie a rest or sights, we will not charge you to install it. If you buy it at Bass Pro, we're gonna charge you. Same with a peep sight. Buy it from us, we'll install it for no charge. Walk in the door with it, and we're gonna charge you.

The nickle and dime stuff, ie serving thread, we normally don't charge for. If you want a rope loop tied in, we're gonna charge you a few bucks for the rope, but no labor. Again, you bought it from us.

I can also tell you that our regular customers (guys that always buy their stuff from us, and have been coming to our shop for a long time) get some discounts that won't apply to the guy that walks into our shop for the first time. The service won't be any different, just what he pays for.

It's really not that different than your butcher. If you and your butcher are on a first name basis, and he knows you because you're a good customer, you'll get treatment that most others wont.

 

Hey Greg, This is my first post here. I see a lot of farmiliar names!
From a business standpoint: You should get paid for work performed. Example: You do 100 small tasks in one day and no big tasks. If you give away the little jobs for free you made nothing! Actually, you lost money because it costs money to operate the business. The people who are put off by paying a minimal fee make me laugh. I would like to see how they would react if their boss told them to work late one day and they wouldn't get paid for their time. People who want something for nothing are the type of people who you want to send down the road. I believe the freebees are for repeat customers. It's the owners way of saying thank you.
From a customer standpoint: I want to keep my pro shop in business. I understand he needs to make a profit in order to be there in the future. I had a dropaway rest installed on my bow for $7 if I remember right. It was properly installed and adjusted in minutes and I was on my way. I gladly paid for his knowledge. It saved me a lot of time and it was done right. I am always happy to pay for good service.

An interesting story:
We had 2 pro shops in town. One shop charged a fair price for work recieved. The other one was a help yourself to my equipment and do your own work. The guy from the first shop told the other guy that if he didn't start charging for his services that they would both go out of business! He was right.

 

For the record, I submitted that to my editor as a column-topic idea almost a year ago, LOL!

Thanks, Jeff... I'll look at that issue as I receive that as well.

Thanks for the input; keep it coming guys! And welcome to our new corner of cyberspace Magicman!