No doubt man.........you have no idea how many guys out by us just plant themselves on food plots day after day after day and wait for mr big to come out. Some guys have scored that way but the vast majority do not. We even fell victim to it for a year or two. The appeal of seeing a dozen deer and the chance of a decent buck still there is quite a draw when it's easy in and easy out. That much entertainment is hard to pass up. Didn't take long to figure out the big boys only hammered the plots at night. Having said that my first sit is always on our plots hoping to catch a big boy that ignored his alarm clock. As you can tell from page one I could have tagged a good buck in early October on our plots. Never saw him again. We have guys by us that have no stands in the woods. They are NUTS IMO as the rut activity I have seen on some days has been downright incredible. Late season as you said is good though as food becomes a need for them again. Our plots hold LOTS of does and small bucks........this can never hurt when chasing big boys as far as I'm concerned because they will come sniffing around and when they see a doe with a small buck near by it's on!! This usually just doesn't occur in the open middle of three acres of turnips though.
Thanks bro........I was hoping you would chime in. Hope you are feeling well We have done that already for 6 years.........not the 120's but the 90-110 guys and everything below and we have EXTENSIVE surveillance of our land with cams and scouting. We have NEVER seen a buck of any recognizable stature return in years later. Have some racks changed that we didn't relate to a spike or 4 pt?? I'm sure but once they hit 2 1/2 and we get good pics of them I feel like we will know him if we see him again. We just don't.........I wish we did. If it were that easy we would have no problem just trying to clip the bucks we see for the first and most likely only time. Actually I think that is our problem as many neighbors report the same issues. These bucks have a lot of land and cover to utilize and it's not uncommon for a guy a half a mile away to have 50 pics of a buck and we end up seeing him on the pole 4 properties away come the season. Sometimes we wonder if they don't move at all because of all the food and does but sometimes we think they move great distances for each. Almost EVERY deer we kill, buck or doe has a stomach full of corn and we have none on our property. These deer move around a lot I believe and we certainly have groups of does we see every day but the bucks.......even the ones we see multiple times in a season can't be relied upon to set up permanent residency. We had pics of a buck near 140" hitting our plot EVERY night from 3-4 am. We set up on him every way known to man but he would never show in the light........we were still OK with that as we assumed he was a homeboy. Never saw him again. I killed this buck with that deer in mind........saw him a couple times and figured why the heck should I just let him go like that other one only never to see him again?? Would he have stayed?? Maybe I guess but since we have no history of that as of yet I figured my odds were crazy low. We have discussed this option as well. We have been pondering letting a buck or two of our choice from early season get a free pass if seen and see if they stick around.........if they do (which we haven't seen yet) that would be very encouraging to expand on. Specifically how or why do you believe that to be true??..........I just haven't seen it play out from age 1-2 to 3-4 so I'm having trouble seeing why it would be even more likely from 3-4 to 4-5.
Then by all means skip it and move on........you didn't actually think I would read your post after a childish opening rant like that did you?? If you don't want to help.......good, go discuss camo patterns in one of the fifty "I got a new toy" threads instead. No one is arguing here and I started the thread asking for help which many have offered in both directions. Truth is I still am unsure what to do. LOTS of "Do this atlas" but when I ask simply for proof or a logical reason WHY based on first hand experience for 6 years the crickets come out.
1 or 2 small sheds is all we ever found and we look every spring at first thaw. We plant in late July only. We will bump the occasional does and fawns like anyone but it's usually not a huge deal. We could have better access to some spots but we try to overcome that by getting in earlier and leaving in full darkness. My brother works with a guy that has killed 3 bucks over 150" on a 17 acre parcel in NY.........that is beyond incredible. It's a perfect funnel between 600+ acres of church owned land and camps that no one is allowed to hunt. He is so spoiled its hard to even talk hunting with him as he wont even sit past 9 am and has a wall full of slobs LOL
For the guys that have multiple properties to hunt...........as I do as well. It's been hypothesized that a good 5 years of passing bucks will result in some good chances at some solid big boys. With that in mind why do we hunt all of our land every year?? Wouldn't we all be smarter to NOT hunt one or a couple of our choices and put them on a five year rotation plan?? I have always wondered what the woods would be like if a 3 year moratorium was enforced on bucks. Does anyone do this???
My three biggest bucks I had shot opportunities on in previous seasons. One of them I had shot opportunities in two separate seasons and have shed antlers from two of the three. The first I have the shed from I took the buck 4 seasons after I found the shed and the other 2 seasons after. However, a handful of years ago another buck I had cam pics of into early September when I took my cams down... I took a little over 1 mile away the same season. It can go either way. However, by doing so you are giving yourself the chance. As you know it's up to you and your crew if it is a chance you want to take.
Just curious what you guys think..........what would you is a REASONABLE.......if not slightly optimistic goal if EVERYTHING was to go right for us along this plan. In other words what should we expect 5 years from now and every year afterwards knowing what we have already discussed. Just trying to contrast the likely reality of our actions vs. the silly daydreaming hopes that sometimes cloud judgement.
I have always hunted multiple places. The majority of my hunting being on public land. I used to use cameras on all of the properties to locate the properties that held a buck or bucks I was interested in. I focused solely on those properties once the season opened. (However as mentioned in other threads I haven't used cams the past few seasons, I may again this year) Sitting around waiting for a big buck usually gets "you" no where really fast. I do not pass bucks trying to let it grow into something I want later. I take each season and property for what it offers each year and hunt those places accordingly. It has been a formula that has worked well for me.
Im truly glad it worked out for you that way on those pieces of land. Knowing what you have read in this thread and being in my shoes........do you believe it's reasonable to expect the same?? I guess I look at "the chance" differently then most people as I don't see your passing of those bucks having little if anything to do (on a large scale) with killing him in the future. Sure had you killed him it would have ended but the same can be said for a thousand other variables that effected that bucks life since that day which you have no control over. As Duke said earlier 90% of the bucks he passes he never sees again............doesn't that CLEARLY a demonstrate that the action of passing them has almost no effect on your future hunts. Had Duke killed many of those 90% instead would his results be different??? I don't see how logically one can assume that. We have had many bucks slip the noose over the last 6 years........ones we wanted to kill and would have if the chance arose but it doesn't always go as planned so they all got unintended passes. We haven't seen any of those bucks return and/or killed a single one. THAT is a major negative in my outlook on passing ones I DO have the chance to kill. I wish we had seen those bucks again years later as my hopes would be much higher and I would have some first hand evidence that it may actually help.
Atlas, I think it just boils down to having a tag in your pocket when that shooter buck DOES show up. You trying to project what a given buck may, or may not turn into, is a futile effort. Kick back, let the smaller ones walk, and enjoy the wait. I think that's most of the fun.
Passing younger bucks and keeping an eye on the quality of the herd is only part of the equation when trying to kill a quality buck. Anyone can go sit in a tree stand and pass younger bucks, but if you are not hunting in a manner that is conducive to big buck killing you will never kill that 150” that you and your family are looking for. It’s always easier to blame the deer or the neighbors, but I have found with my failures it’s mostly been me. My advice would be to revisit all of your hunting strategies.
I would think it is reasonable for the results to be replicated. However, in the same breath I am not the guy to answer a question like that. As I said, I do not pass bucks "to let them go and let them grow". I pass them because they aren't an animal I am interested in. I fully understand all of the obstacles these animals must hurdle to make it to a big rack. Cars, hunters, natural morality, poachers, predators etc etc. That's why I take each season as a new beginning and every year comb those properties for clues an animal I would be interested in is using that land. The places holding a buck I am interested in I make a plan to capitalize on the time of year and weather conditions to get on that buck.
Pretty close to our outlook. We aren't trying to grow deer or anything silly like that. We are simply aware that some big boys are indeed out there (not necessarily our land) but the area. We mistakenly believed that passing up the mid level yet solid bucks would somehow increase our encounters with the bigger ones. In hindsight all we did was supply some other hunters, coyotes, bears and trucks a few more targets. We ended up spending a year in the photography world when we should have been hunting instead. I'm not sure what or why our past experience didn't keep us from making this poor choice.........I guess we just fell victim to hearing it so many times we just assumed it would work instead of being logical and approaching it factually based on the last 6 years........kind of like sitting on the food plots. So many guys around us do it and blabber about it non stop that we got drawn in to that approach as well. Until we sat down and factually went over what we were seeing and realized it was a mistake.
No doubt that staring at a beast with no tag would be a serious motivational tool but it's never happened so not worth worrying about. The rest IS what we have always done and had a blast doing it. We have enhanced it numerous ways along the years.........food plots being the #1 improvement we've made. Last year we chose poorly and let an entire season on a great spot slip away.
I would recommend hiring a whitetail biologist or a professional who does whitetail land managment like steve bartylla. I sure there is ways to keep more bucks living on your property. Remember you have to have realistic goals. Your area may have poor genetics and rarely ever get a buck in the 150 class.
I guess I will isolate this because I have asked it numerous times with no replies. Not sure why it keeps getting passed over (pun intended). We have had many bucks slip the noose over the last 6 years........ones we wanted to kill and would have if the chance arose but it doesn't always go as planned so they all got unintended passes. We haven't seen any of those bucks return and/or killed a single one. I am not a gut feeling kind of guy. I don't like hunches, or just saying something because you heard it a thousand times yourself so you guess it's true. When I buy stocks I don't buy because somebody heard something from a cousins sisters uncle who knows a guy. I sit down and go over the FACTS of why or why it is a good investment likely to succeed........and if it's not I walk away. Analyzing my statement above who would say passing mid range bucks on our land WILL result in more of them seen and killed (assuming we do our part) in the future. Tell me FACTUALLY why it's a good investment based on what I said above in bold.
Our goals are realistic and our genetics are great.........I know it's 12 pages but that's all been covered. We have a LEGIT chance at a buck 150"+ to walk by any day, any sit. One strolled by me at 1:30pm on a nice warm sunny day making all the noise in the world (I was ready to jump down and confront a trespasser he was so loud LOL). He made a violent scrape and stared out over our food plot for a few minutes looking for something of interest. I grunted at him and he almost broke his neck he spun around so fast but again the open plot was between us and he's not crazy so he worked his way around the plot and came up behind me looking for the source of the grunts. He never came in range and simply got bored and lumbered off after a few minutes. We put cams up all up and down his path and that scrape and any other buck sign or deer trail to and from that area for the rest of the season and never saw him again. One neighbor got him on cam once earlier that summer but no one but me ever laid eyes on him to our knowledge. Now that encounter can be looked any a few different ways..........but in reality simply being in right spot on that right day at that right time bags you a BEAST.......I mean he was a beautiful high, heavy mirror image symmetry slob of a buck. I was close. Did someone else pass him for him to get to me?? Who knows. What we DO KNOW is me passing him albeit against my will did not result in us or anyone we know in our area seeing or killing him in the future. I don't know if there exists an artificial way to increase those encounters but it appears the one we chose was a bust. We would have been much better off doing our hard work, being smart about our hunts.........but understanding we can't make these bucks appear and while they are there for sure every year Father Time will put them in front of a smart hunter just as frequently as any artificial means we may try to employ along the way.
I don't think anyone can say factually it is a good investment of time and money. Based on YOUR facts that you've provided on your land it hasn't been beneficial to your goal. The risk has not equaled reward. I go back to Dukes statement about 90% of mid range bucks that you pass you never see again. Like you said, could be 100 different variables why. Nevertheless, it doesn't change the outcome. The number of 150's hasn't increased a single percentage (by what you're saying) by passing the mid range bucks or not. I've had a LOT of slammer bucks that I've seen or had pics of to simply vanish like a fart in the wind never to be seen again. Chalked it up to the rut and they ended up the next county over on a hot doe. But, never to my knowledge have they returned. I'm more of the mindset these days of buckeyes approach at the start of each season and hunt the bucks you know are top end and calling your land home.
