shoot what makes you happy. but I believe the bar should be raised at some point in a hunters career. just don't complain about never seeing a big one when you participate in shooting off the smaller ones each year. the smaller ones will someday be your bigger ones.
Based on what???............I'm seriously looking for answers and specific reasons or facts that PROVE not shooting medium sized bucks WILL increase the probability of shooting a beast down the road. It gets said A LOT and on the surface it seems semi-logical but not much digging is needed to show it most likely is not the case. I'm all ears for a factual explanation of why it IS true.
WOW Rybo....................Sounds like our situations are pretty much IDENTICAL. One thing I think we let creep into our minds was that there was some tangible way to up our encounters with the top end bucks from our area when in reality it's nothing more then a waiting game. Time will bring them to us and many more 120-130" bucks along the way simply because they are more plentiful. We shifted our mindset to think (stupidly) that letting these bucks walk would somehow result in a bigger one strolling by instead. Thanks for posting bro as it really hits home coming from someone on a parallel journey.
Sure I'll let you go first. Being it seems "semi-logical but not much digging is needed to show it most likely is not the case" What evidence do you have that this is fictional. I am all ears...
Harsh is fine...........I'm a big boy, you won't hurt my feelings. Our situation may not be perfect but I can tell you that in the state of NY it's as good as it gets. We have ground that we EXPECT 2 of us to have legit kill chances on bucks over 120" every year and 6 sightings of bucks over 150" from stand in the last 6 years. EVERY year multiple BIG bucks are killed in our area and just last year our neighbor to the south killed a 172" stud. It's not Kansas, Illinois, Ohio, or Iowa but it doesn't suck either. We have a REALISTIC chance at a slammer each sit but even then that chance is not something to bank on. There are enough 4 year olds+ out there to keep us on our toes.........every year between us and the neighbors we get these bucks on camera from time to time.......a couple get killed every year by someone around us..........sometimes a mile away and sometimes next door. You NEVER know when one might walk your way but I wouldn't sit there and EXPECT it to happen. Along your line of logic please explain how passing these bucks WILL (not hypothetically) but WILL result in us seeing and killing more older bucks. It didn't "KILL US" to pass these bucks..........please read the thread. I've said NUMEROUS times we don't really care about the bucks we let walk other then we feel like we wasted a year watching instead of hunting because we don't feel what we did will effect our future encounters in any way shape or form...........even if we did it for years. Sorry...........but 350 acres with a 40-50 acre sanctuary is not small acreage. I have 28 acres at my home that I have seen multiple bucks over 120" the last 4 years and killed a mid 130's along the way. More land always helps but my homeland is surrounded by farms and a bunch of people who don't hunt. THAT helps more. Quality over quantity any day. What are possibly basing that on Don't know and don't care because it's beyond my control just like every other hunter out there. The does are a problem...........there are way too many to even control at this point. We kill tons of does but then again question that sometimes because our best encounters are almost always big boys running does. We like having does around but sometimes there are just too many. No one would ever refer to buck hunting out there with the description of "suck" How will it do that??.............specifically, how does it increase our odds?? I/we will gladly do it if we believe that.
How does us not killing a couple bucks each year accomplish this?? Keeping in mind what I have already stated in the thread. We're not tired of it so to speak............I guess a good way to describe it would be like going to an outfitter for a couple years and tagging 130-140" bucks a few times. When you're not used to hunting that good it's awesome and you love every second but like anything else you KNOW there are 160"+ bucks out there and they get killed every year so after a few years you tell yourself to wait for one of them just because you know they are out there. It's not about a challenge or evolving or any of that BS. EVERY hunter in the woods wants to shoot BIG bucks if they have that chance and we thought what we were doing would up our chances and now feel as though it was a mistake and we will likely see and kill just as many slammers over the years doing exactly what we are doing vs sitting there watching everything walk by. One of my biggest points..............you are actively supplying others with chances at good bucks, not yourself. Would you go to work if you only got to keep 10 cents of every dollar you earned?? It's bot even an argument anymore..........few if any guys cling to it as a self defense mechanism because they feel the truth somehow diminishes what they have on their wall. It's been PROVEN over and over and over on these very boards so many times it's laughable. You're right, it is a crutch and an excuse...........just not the way you cling to. You're final sentence proves my point perfectly. Good to see you again and thanks for responding as I always look forward to your input.
Atlas, I was only half joking about your bro not holding out for that BIG 10pt. After reading everything you've done, it sounds like your only shot a big boy is simply not shooting lesser bucks, like you've been doing, and waiting a big boy out. Just me seeing that trail cam pic of those 3 bucks tells me that property hold great bucks! You mentioned that property being in "PRIME" whitetail country, and that it's "as good as it gets". I believe you, and you need to believe you, but you have to remember, you're not in Kansas. I'd kill (pun intended) to have the bucks running around the land I hunt, that you let walk. You have it good, be thankful my friend.
It's a lot easier if you read the thread..............I REALLY don't feel like re typing 9 pages for you that are already there to read. If you have any specific questions I'd be happy to elaborate or discuss them.
LOL..........I know, but we do bust his chops about shooting the smallest one in the picture. Seriously though like I said the other bucks were never seen or killed by anyone in our local group of property owners that keep in touch every year. I hope they aren't dead but more then likely they have been burger for years by someone further away. How are those things linked considering what you have read???............I won't go as far as to say they are mutually exclusive but I fail to see a reliable direct link as well. We know and I certainly hope it doesn't come across that way because we are mindful of complaining about something so good. We don't really even discuss hunting with anyone in our area much because they look at us like we are from Mars. I know how BAD the hunting in NY can be because I lived it. I never meant for it to sound whiney...............it was a sincere effort to link the two actions through some factual logic before we get rolling in the spring. We have ALWAYS passed bucks out there but shot anything 115-120"+ This past year we decided to pass them thinking it would result in more chances at something 140-150" range. That was stupid in hindsight.
I was referring to the fact that you have 350 acres of land (and that is indeed enough) with "acres of food plots", let smaller bucks walk, and only have a few hunters. I noticed other posts mentioning too many does as well, you really HAVE to do something with that issue to bring the buck to doe ratio much closer. If and when you do that, I believe you'll see more of the bucks that are actually there. They'll have to move more to seek fewer potential hot does. If you're seeing more of the bucks, you'll have to see more big bucks, right?
Atlas, how many years have you been deer hunting and how many bucks have you tagged that are over 150"?
I'm not sure if I missed it in any posts, but I haven't seen any mention of age, just inches. What age class of bucks have you been passing? Are you letting deer get to 4 1/2 - 5 1/2? Or are you expecting to see 150" 3 year olds?
The does are what they are.......we can't fix that. Depending on the neighbors we may have as few as a handful of guys hunting over a thousand acres. The NYSDEC is also so stupid that the actually limit doe tags in our area for some crazy reason so many years we actually get denied tags when sitting and seeing 20+ in a day is common. The does bring the bucks but the BIG boys lock them down and have to run less for sure. Most times a doe is their doom anyways.
We've never shot a buck under 2 1/2 there.............and don't really care about age to tell the truth. If the rack gets us excited we try to take him. We have ZERO impact on whether the deer get to 4-5 years old. Not many bucks in NY will see 150" at 3 years.
Wish I had seen this thread earlier. I understand completely what you felt after the season. I will offer this....The idea of holding out for a big mature buck is something that remains just that for most hunters...an idea. If that is what you truly want then you are moving in the right direction. The problem with doing that though is most hunters don't realize the time it takes to see measurable results from passing small bucks. For instance...let's day on your 350 acres...prior to you owning it there were no bucks over 2 1/2. If you start immediately passing those deer...it will be at least 2 years before you have any 4 1/2 year old bucks, assuming they survive the neighbors. A sound management plan takes above all....time. I'm sure you are familiar with Charles Alzheimer. He has managed his NY farm for over 30 years to see the results he has. It is absolutely possible. But remember it isn't realistic to expect immediate results. I've been in a similar situation on one of my farms. I have been managing it for 8 years now...and only in the last 2 have I really seen a difference in average size of the bucks. It takes commitment and patience. That being said...if you miss just having a good time and shooting a decent buck...There is nothing wrong with that either. You may have to evaluate what your true goals and priorities are. If you really want bigger deer, you can do it, but you have to be ok with eating a tag rather than shoot an immature buck. If you can do that, you will be successful eventually....but if you aren't willing to eat a few tags to increase the age class of your deer, then I would continue to have fun the way you have always done it. This is the first thing I discuss with my clients when setting up a property. Your ultimate goals...and your willingness to stick to them, will determine what you should do. Do what makes you happy
He asked if we are "letting" our bucks get to 4-5 years of age. No one without the aid of a fence can claim that type of control. We've passed tons of bucks out there over the years and have NEVER seen one return as a 4-5 year old. Do they get killed by hunter or car or winter?? Probably. Do they just move around?? Probably. Who knows where they go or what happens to them..........Duke just posted that 90% of the bucks he passes he never sees again so passing them had absolutely ZERO impact on whether they lived that long as a thousand other variables are just as important. Sure, if you kill him you KNOW he will never get there but I think too many guys feel like if they pass them up he has a good or better chance at getting to 150" or 4-5 years old.
Thanks for the input..........it's not really a goal so to speak as we really couldn't care less. Of course we want to kill the bigger bucks in our area like anyone......we just picked a stupid way to try and up our chances at doing it. We just need to accept the fact the the BIG boys are out there and when we do get our chance don't blow it. We avg a glimpse at a beast probably not quite once a year. Glimpse meaning we laid eyes on one no matter how far or how brief and regardless of weapon. That's not bad and none of us have had to cringe while staring at a bruiser with no tag left so I would say our approach is more good then bad. We had some serious neighbor stupidity this year and still could have killed two about 120 and one closer to 130. Anything that takes 8 years or more to drop a solid buck is a miserable failure IMO. I/We have absolutely no desire to only tag 4 or 5 more bucks for the rest of our days. LOL...........poor dad doesn't have the luxury of timelines like that anymore. I keep telling him he should start buying his golf balls one at a time...............he hates that joke
If you couldn't care less there wouldn't be a post...upset about the "lost" season. It is easy to see that passing these bucks and not shooting larger bucks bothered you greatly. Even if Mike didn't see 90% of the bucks the following year he did see 10% of them and they were a year older. Once you go the initial 4 for 5 years passing younger bucks and letting them get a older age structure you do not have to keep repeating you should have more mature bucks every year after that as long as you don't shoot the younger ones again or have some type of illness come through.
Another option that might work for you guys is work your property and take does from it but let the bucks age and just shoot bucks on public ground so that you can still kill a buck until you have an older age structure on your land.
