What do you consider a heavy arrow? How do these sound to you?

Discussion in 'Bowhunting Talk' started by Greg / MO, Jul 28, 2008.

  1. Greg / MO

    Greg / MO Grizzled Veteran

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    Just finished building my whitetail arrows last night (Victory V400 V-1 series with label removed and Predator Fall Gray wraps topped off with 4" MeanV barred feathers and pin nocks). I completed them with a 50-grain Muzzy brass insert holding a Muzzy 100-grain MX-3. Completed arrow was 30 3/16" from tip of the Muzzy to nock groove.

    Total arrow weight came in at 435 grains, with an FOC of 11%.

    My totals surprised me slightly; I thought I was going to have a bit more FOC than that. Still, I'm pretty pleased with the outcome so far even before I start shooting them. I'm expecting a bit quieter shot and harder thump this year. :beer:

    I'll be fletching up some Carbon Express Maxima Hunters with the weight-forward tubing for my elk trip, using the same brass inserts and foregoing the wraps (they have camo shafts and the pattern would clash ;)) Should be pushing upwards of 13% FOC with those, I'd imagine...
     
  2. Txjourneyman

    Txjourneyman Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I would have expected a higher FOC with that set up. Particularly with the inserts. I don't consider that very heavy although I still have a lot to learn. My Beman MFX 340 arrows are cut at 28 1/2" with 3 Blazers and 100gr heads, (I changed my mind about going to 125gr). They weigh in right at 425gr and are quiet and pack a pretty good thump.
     
  3. mobow

    mobow Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Sounds good buddy! They aren't all THAT heavy, but they should hit like a freakin tank! Why the pin nocks for hunting?
     
  4. Greg / MO

    Greg / MO Grizzled Veteran

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    Just because I could. :beer:

    You may have missed the pic I threw up of them in your other thread... you'd asked to see them when they were done.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Anybody smart enough to double-check my FOC calculations? Like Tx, I was anticipating a slightly higher FOC with the finished product, so I'd welcome scrutinization. I used bowjackson's FOC chart to get that figure.
     
  5. GregH

    GregH Grizzled Veteran

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    I've always thought that anything 500 gr and over was a heavy and anything under 400 was light. I shoot aluminums that weigh 445 gr.
     
  6. mobow

    mobow Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Good lookin arras brother! FOC is simple to figure up, you just need a sharp edge, such as a knife blade, and a ruler....a calculator helps too. I never trust the charts myself.

    Find your center point of the arrow, then the balance point. Subtract the difference, and divide by total arrow length.

    U get my PM? ;)
     
  7. Ben/PA

    Ben/PA Grizzled Veteran

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    I consider anything approaching 450 mark to be on the heavy side of things. Nice looking arrows Greg!! Good luck messing one of them all up.:moose:
     
  8. Schultzy

    Schultzy Grizzled Veteran

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    Close to my thoughts as well Greg. 550 grains and up and your packing one hell of a punch! My arrows weigh right around 600 grains (XX75 2216 Aluminum Arrows 4" 4 fletched tipped with 125 grain heads).
     
  9. rybo

    rybo Grizzled Veteran

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    I echo GregH thoughts on weight.
     
  10. Germ

    Germ Legendary Woodsman

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    I agree
     
  11. BowHuntingFool

    BowHuntingFool Grizzled Veteran

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    I'm on the same page as you guys! My arrows are coming in right around 560.... its pretty hard to stop a speeding freight train!:rock:
     
  12. Rob / PA

    Rob / PA Grizzled Veteran

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    Same here, 500 grains and up is heavy, light for me drops below 375ish. I'm considering trying some heavier (notice heavier not heavy)aluminums again this year. I'll have to have RJ make me some up on his software. :d
     
  13. shed

    shed Grizzled Veteran

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    great lookin arrows greg... them are almost to purdy to get bloody.... :) good luck with em ... yeah like everyone else has said, 500 and up for a heavier arrow. below 400 for me means light..

    Ive biult 6 different sets of arrows for 3 different bows...this spring/summer, from 2213s, 2216s, ac kenetics, acc 3-71s, 340 axis and finally 340 fmjs .... been experimenting with weight forward inserts and heavier broadheads... very pleased to say the least.... my 3 that weigh the most fall between 524 to 560 and have foc from 16 to 19
     
  14. shed

    shed Grizzled Veteran

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    haha ... one more thing.... i remember bringing up heavier arrows one time on HNI about 2 or 3 years ago and i got treated like a leper ....trends i guess
     
  15. quiksilver

    quiksilver Weekend Warrior

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    From my findings - you really don't start seeing major changes in trajectory until you eclipse that 330 fps mark - so there's really no point in cutting arrow weight down unless you're REALLY cutting the arrow weight down DRAMATICALLY. And for most bowhunters, that simply is not an option - because you have to exceed the specs of your bow to get there.

    My hunting arrows last year were in the 285-290 grain range, and at 70#, I was getting 350+ fps. At that speed, the trajectory was pretty sick. Legit one-pin hunting to 40, just gapping a little hot as you got out near the 40 yard mark.

    As soon as I went back to a "normal" shaft (420 gr), despite still being 300+ fps, my trajectory changed back to a point where I was still setting separate markings for 30, 40, etc., and gapping accordingly. The pins were stacked tight - but they were necessary.

    Don't get me wrong - There DOES come a point where you can start taking pins off of the sight bracket, or erasing hashmarks without playing guessing games or sacrificing accuracy. By my experience, that point came when you pass the 330 feet per second mark.

    In my opinion, there just isn't much difference between a 550 grain arrow and a 400 grain arrow in the field, b/c you're still stuck estimating yardages within a certain tolerance, and the trajectories aren't THAT much different, if you're zero'ed around 25 yards. It's this simple: You're either one-pin hunting or you're not (99.9% of hunters are not). If you're not, you might as well try to maximize your KE numbers and hit like a freight train.

    The moral of the story here is that - for hunting purposes - there's really no point in going light unless you're building an arrow that's going to put you in that 350 fps range for a one-pin setup. At that point, you're really gaining a LOT of wiggle-room on yardage estimation and getting into a legitimate one-pin scenario.

    It doesn't matter if you're 230 or 300 fps, you still have to be in the ballpark on yardage. So if you're stuck judging yardage, you might as well use the most effective arrow available, which is a high KE or high FOC system.

    Just my .02
     
  16. Germ

    Germ Legendary Woodsman

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    Yes because the differnce at 20 yds from 300-350 plus is mind blowing:deer:

    Fran if one was shooting a full 300 ft, I could see your point, but being we shoot 50yds and less. It really does not matter IMO
     
  17. Greg / MO

    Greg / MO Grizzled Veteran

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    That's exactly why I ordered up the brass inserts for this year and tried to go a bit heavier with a tad more FOC...

    After shooting them last night for the first time, I had the impression that they didn't "feel" much different in handling them and loading them onto the bow... so I came back and weighed my old ACCs. They came in at 406 grains as opposed to these at 435, with an FOC of 10 vs. 11... so they really weren't that much different. The ACC shaft compared to the Victory shaft made up for the difference, and I guess adding wraps versus my usual capping & cresting paint negated too much of an FOC gain with the brass inserts.

    I'm really curious to see how my elk arrows will come out, with the CE Maxima Hunter's weight-forward tubing combined with the brass insert and I won't be putting anything on the rear except those three 4" feathers...
     
  18. quiksilver

    quiksilver Weekend Warrior

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    Gary - all my shots are inside 40 yards. For me, if I'm shooting a normal arrow, I have to use multiple pins or multiple markings for hunting. However, if I can get myself into that 350fps range, I can confidently start taking pins off the bow and erasing hashmarks. At that point, I actually gain something tangible and/or useful. No more yardage guessing games.

    IMO - It's all about gaining something. You have 2 choices:

    1.) If you have the capability (and the gonads) to build an arrow light enough , you can create a true one-pin setup. I got there last year at just about 4.1 grains per pound. Most people would be terrified to try that. I did it just to try something different - and it worked flawlessly.
    2.) If you can't go light, and you're stuck using multiple pins or yardage markings, then you might as well go heavy and gain some FOC or KE. This is the game that I'd advise 99.9% of the bowhunting population to play. I just wouldn't trust any weekend warrior to start playing around with 5.5 gpi arrows on a bow that wasn't made to handle it. Odds are, they would either wind up at the hospital, in court or on the phone with warranty service personnel.

    You can't have it both ways. Damn physics.
     
  19. BigJ71

    BigJ71 Weekend Warrior

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    I figured the same thing, I really don't consider them heavy till the break the 500gr mark. I'm shooting 476gr Easton Axis ST 300's
     
  20. Schultzy

    Schultzy Grizzled Veteran

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    Not all people shoot compounds either quik.;) As a Traditional shooter and a former compound shooter by shooting these heavier arrows its not really about KE, etc, as much to me. To me its more about momentum and smacking that animal with that force. For my recurve set up I'd be a fool to shoot a 400 grain arrow. I need that momentum to get my penetration. Speed don't do me much good, weight does. Why is it an issue to have more then one pin on your compound anyway?
     

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