I find this really strange. Since my father died, my grandfather did most of my raising. But remember my grandfather used to loathe any grumbling or complaining of Vietnam Vets. He would say they were weak. I would be little tike around 5 and he would be talking to his VFW buddies, and proclaim, "if they wanted to know a real fight, they should have fought the japanese, they don't know what a real fight is". He always thought they complained too much about not being able to sleep, flashbacks, etc. He thought they should have stuffed it down and let it go. I never saw the man cry in my life, even at several funerals of mothers, sisters, and brothers. Getting an ataboy was really something in childhood. Growing up, I came to the conclusion, it might have been due to my father served and died and he pretty well dogged anything my father did, and discounted it, and thats what fathers do to husbands of their little girls. But I have heard this way of thinking from several WWII vets. It rather shocks me. You can imagine what my grandfather thought of regular citizens who didn't want to serve. If he really hated hated you, he called you a "dope smokin hippy". But in the same breath, he always told me, he didn't want me to serve, but be one of the first of the family to finish college. He didn't know what college grads did, but he always assumed it was better. He died in 1984. I know he loved me, and according to his children, he loved me more that he ever loved them. So, now, I was talking to our facility manager. He was a vietnam vet, and he grumbling, and complaining about Iraq and Afghan vets. He went on a rant for 30 min, on how they don't do anything but drive around in 100K of gear, surf the net, and get blown up with IED's, and then get metals for bravery. He went on to say, in Vietnam, he got 20 dollars of gear and a 50 dollar funeral, never got to talk to family members, except thru letters. All I can think, is, shouldn't this guy be happy that troops are treated better today? I even asked, "do you really want them treated as you was?" No answer of course. And I have heard this sentiment from many Vietnam vets. I mean don't we want more for the new generation, not less?
My father served multiple tours in Vietnam and I have never heard him once "complain" about other soldiers in other conflicts, especially Marines. The guy loves his fellow Marines wether they served only in peacetime, a 1 minute conflict, a one week conflict at Disneyland, a one month conflict in Beirut, or a one year conflict fighting the Devil himself in hell. He thinks they are all warriors that fight for our country's best interest and holds them all in high regard. I think it is in poor taste to talk trash about your fellow servicemen if they did not fight in a "tougher" war than the one you fought in back in the day. They still risked their lives and manned up for our country. Vietnam Vets dealt with things, especially on the homefront that WWII vets never dealt with when they returned home.
I agree VA, maybe I am just talking to the wrong guys. Sure they all don't do that. And am sure, much of it has to do with my father. Even after the guy was dead and buried, him and my uncles would dog my father over the way he played football, or didn't know how to fish before they taught him. I mean, I never knew my father, so I guess it doesn't matter.
When and where did you serve BC? I think what you may find is that.... ..............oh ...nevermind. It's not worth it.
David, he started a philosophical post based on some occurences in his life. I don't see what the big deal is and I think his initial post is interesting.
Every generation thinks that the generation after them is lazy, selfish, and worthless. It has been that way since man developed thought. Nothing will ever change.
The guys that fought in the civil war probably thought the guys that fought in the Spanish-American war had it is and so on and so forth throughout history. I agree...it's just human nature.
Going to combat sucks... Been there done that, got two medals for it. I have nothing but respect for those who went before me and pray my kids don't have to do what myself, my dad, my gran dad and my great grand dad have done. But all of us love our country and if I could rewind and do it all over... I'd be a Marine and fight for my country all over again. My .02
I have respect for anybody that went into battle, no matter if its David, my father, my grandfather or Flordia Marine. I just never understood my Grandfather's loathing of Vets after him dealing with that war. Obviously none of you understood it either. I also don't understand Vietnam vets dogging of Iraq war vets. There has to be something to it. I thank them all.
In all fairness, they claim, that baby boomers will be the first generation much weaker than the one before. And after that, it went downhill. I have a book showing the history of Martin County, Ky. I look back at my great, great great uncles, and family, and these people looked like they earned every spec of food they put in thier mouth. I will agree, I am a much weaker person then that generation.
Well OK, you call it philosophical. I think if you were there, or have read the history and can see through all the politics... you'll find you're comparing apples and oranges. Heck, most of the people here weren't even alive in Vietnam. The politics and Hollywood have changed the view of it all. I think you'll find it hard to find a Vietnam vet that came home to anything but protest and ridicule. We were actually told when we hit the states to change out of our uniforms to avoid confrontation with protesters and peaceniks. Tell me another war the USA has been in where their soldiers were treated so. As far as grandpa thinking we didn't know what a real fight was.... I think you'd have a hard time convincing the boys at Con Tien, HIep Duc, LZ X ray, Dak To, my boys at Tam Ky etc etc they didn't understand what a real fight was like. My company lost 82 dead in Vietnam. The US lost 20 total in Iraq in 2011 so far. In 8 years in Afghanistan we lost a little over 4000. In Iraq...2400 or so. We lost that many in a month in 68. And still.... we were vilified by Jane Fondas, the press, and the people back home as baby killers. Do you have any doubt as to why the Vietnam vet feels a little abandoned by his country and neighbors. NO... it wasn't Omaha Beach.... but we didn't deserve the brand we were given and are still given by people and the press. Hell, they're changing the history books to make it like we shouldn't have been there. Newsflash..... we were ask and told by our country to go there.... so we went. We did our duty... and were persecuted for doing it by just about everyone.... probably to include the parents of a lot of you or some of you yourselves. Politics lost Vietnam.... not the warrior. As far as treating todays soldiers like we were treated.... of course I wouldn't want that. But in the same frame of mind.... I detest making everyone in a uniform a "HERO". Heck, look at 911. Immediately all firemen and policemen became "HEROS". And today I read on this site where a neighbor cop went whacko and shot his EX. But up until today... "He was a hero". I think it softens us as a country. Remember the girl from WVa that ran off, crashed and was unconscious during a little shoot out. She was taken prisoner, rescued and they actually were talking about giving her the Medal of Honor because they wanted a touchy touchy feel good story. Some book company gave here a million bucks as a binder for her book. Then it came out she didn't do squat. The press sensationalizes when it's convenient or the PC thing of the moment. Communities now go over board for one local soldier that most didn't know when he gets killed. What would we do if we had another Omaha Beach. People would melt down no doubt. Give this country a couple days of the Idrang and we'd have mutiny. We're getting soft and going downhill I figure. BC... I don't think you'll find gereration after generation finding fault with the next. There's really only one generation that's caused this problem... and it's Vietnam. The Vietnam vet was dishonored by this country.... plain and simple. But fear not, they say we're dying faster than any other group of veterans. Agent orange and all that have taken a lot more of my boys. Supposedly we'll all be dead in 5 years or something crazy like that.... and then no one will have to worry about what we think.... as if they ever did. As far as comparing battles.... you can't do it. No warrior has control over what his war will be. All I can say is some will kill you more often than others. I've been in some bad stuff.... and some not so bad stuff. But as I tell my people from 2 entirely different years in Vietnam This deadly time in our lives gave us one thing in common. No matter how much or how little action we saw we came to the same place. A place where the people around you became one. We relied on each other, we mourned together, we got angry together, we fought together, we even had our little squabbles from time to time…. But we always came together. We were there for each other. Families,-- loved ones,--- friends of the WORLD didn’t matter it seemed at times. The bond we formed has taken Doctor, lawyer, carpenter,---- all walks of life and glued them together for life --- and after life. Nope.... we don't find fault with todays warriors. We just feel a bit cheated. We did our job well... yet we were ridiculed at the time, now you tell me WWII vets think we're cry babies, you tell me the young crowd thinks we're hard on todays soldiers. Fear not, we'll be gone soon and you can write the history books however you want. I've gotten to a point where the only thing I find enlightening on the subject at all is time spent with my boys. So hang on a few more years and you'll have no more generations comparing. Here's a link to show you casualties in a not so big war that seems to demand everyone serving is a HERO. Quite interesting really. They kill more in Baltimore City. Really, you're more likely to die in Baltimore than Iraq. http://icasualties.org/ So that's my rant for today. WWI and WWII vets came home to ticker tape parades. Korean Vets kind of got the shaft and the shrugged shoulder. They got screwed and had their fights. I came home to protesters, change your clothes and you shouldn't have been there. Todays police action vets come home to applause in the airports, special seats on the planes and everyone calls everyone a hero. I hope we never have a big war because I don't think people today could handle it.
yeah, we could - and win... Americans have a huge moral and spritual well to draw from. Ask the victims in MO and AL. Never underestimate America, and don't believe the crap that the liberal media spout that we are second rate - we are not. We are a strong, centrist nation that when called upon, will answer the mail.
It's nice to see the Vietnam vets being so supportive of today "police action" vets. Very heartwarming...... What I take from this whole thread is that if you didn't fight in Vietnam then you didn't fight at all. I will be sure to share this same attitude with my friends who have and are still involved in a "police action" conflict. I will also let them know not to move to Baltimore when they get back.
If there's anyone that should detest the Vietnam war, it should be me. You try growing up in Eastern Ky without a father and living under poverty conditions. People are not as supportive as you might think. In fact, they look at you as trash without money. My mother is a saint, and stuck her head high.
