On THIS we can agree! Whole heartedly. My regular Friday night dinner group had a good discussion about this. We determined that the only way term limits would ever happen is from a grass-roots push. We thought it might get organized through local service organizations such as Rotary, Kiwanis, Knights of Columbus, Linons club,etc, etc,. It will have to come from the ground up and be well organized and be forced onto the ballot or it will never happen. It is time. I guess what gripes me most are the blinder wearing libs that blame the entire housing bust on Bush. And there are a LOT of them. There were plenty of "criminals" on both sides of the isle. Many libs had their hand deep into the policy and reform that started the beginning of the end and many conservatives took the ball and ran with it. But the fact remains that government and government regulations (or lack thereof) played a major roll in the debacle. Hope you are no longer sad for me.
If you want to understand the mortgage crisis read "The Big Short", like Liar's Poker somewhat a 'how to' that explains the key concepts and some of the problems...parts of what folks have said are true, but there is A LOT of BS above. In short, the borrowers, government, banks, investment houses, stupid investors and ratings agencies all played roles. Plenty of blame to go around, but O would rather blame somebody else as is his MO. MBSes weren't and aren't the problem, but were the 'inputs' to the real problem, the CDS and ABS derivatives were the real problem. Banks not holding the paper for loans originated helped feed the demand created by the derivatives. Wall Street demand for additional loans used to back products like MBSes, which were then leveraged for CDS and ABS derivatives provided the capital to banks to lend, with more $ to lend, banks gladly lowered standards and lent to marginal prospects (conveniently helping the numbers on Gov't mandated reports) and other and greedy consumers hoping for a quick get-rich flip. The larger FS companies had greater exposure as the CDS, but few other than those on WS and AIG were left holding the bag on the crappiest CDSes. The ratings agencies paid by the banks (somewhat a conflict) didn't have the processes in play to perform objective evaluations of the bundles and were getting more and more work from the banks, so they waived a lot of crap through. The fed departments, agencies and commissions didn't regulate or even understand the derivatives market, potential risks to portfolios from products like less than interest only loans, NINJA loans, etc And some legislation and gradual industry changes accepted by the Fed parties (Fannie/Freddie) and Banks ended up screwing both over holding crappy non-performing assets. Some Fed agencies are also rumored to have threatened and coerced banks to acquire some of the worst performers as the housing bubble started to collapse. The fed also required banks (not offered) to take a bail out (effectively at the end of the gun) whether they wanted it or not, to avoid a public run on the banks (a la the great depression) and putting the FDIC on the hook for even greater liability as the banks would been caught in a liquidity squeeze as well as having to quiet the riot as banks had to say no to consumers and explain to customers the difference between DDAs and NOW accts. Stupid investors buying products they have no idea as to how they work, the risks or how they generate profit/loss as well as a fair bit of fraud across the board also created noise. And BTW, to an earlier point, >every< US president from Roosevelt thru the last Bush has had an incestuous relationship with the energy industry and the companies, not just the Bush family. Folks, can we please stop repeating the party rhetoric, challenge our own assumptions, what both parties say, read, study, think past the party jerseys and think (and if so inclined, convicted or belief Pray) long term for ALL we consider voting for?!
EXCELLENT POST!! Thank you for that. We all need to challenge ourselves to question EVERYTHING we are told by any media outlet. The facts are there, but sometimes you really have to dig to find them.
Thanks. Correction, CDS should be CDO above. I forgot to mention CMOs and a bunch of other 'investment vehicles/instruments', the yield curve, the tremendous amount of investment $ and a bunch of other stuff..there are/were lots of moving parts. Conclusion is the same.
Actually, everything you said is tied to MBS (I used MBS as a blanket, as it is the "root"). So, yes, they were the reason that the "hit" was so hard. Sorry that I didn't going into all the finer details of CDOs, etc, but my post gave a pretty solid overview. Again, I said it was more complex that that post, but it all comes back to MBS being the reason the economical hit was so widespread. Had the housing market crashed without the heavy MBS (yes, CDOs, CDSs, etc) entanglement, the recession wouldn't have been as bad. Like I said, it would take a lot of backtrailing to find all the reasons. I was putting it in very simple terms, because I bet most people didn't even finish reading my post, much less yours.
What you're suggesting is akin to blaming stocks for losses on options. The options are only there because of the stock and small movements of stock prices have an impact on the options. Similarly, the MBSes are only as good as the integrity of their underlying mortgages and the commitment of the borrowers. As the borrowers who had no means/intent to really even keep property, make the payments or through circumstances when they were/are no longer able to pay, default, everything collapses. Part of the reason the borrowers must share the blame. But that would be suicide for a politician to tell their constituents. Its easier to lie and simply blame banks, George Bush, a Video, some flunky in the ATF, Congress, ad nauseum.
You can't have self government without self control. It is absolutely as much the consumers fault as it is the loan givers. This country is in bad need of a reality check. Just because you want something, that doesn't mean you can have it or deserve it. The entitlement mentality needs to change and it starts at home and through education. Imo, there needs to be programs in place in school that teaches people how to handle money and invest it for their futures. Also, college students need to understand a liberal arts degree most likely won't earn them a living and it isn't Wall Streets fault.:D Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
I agree 100%. The people borrowing the money are also reponsible for knowing what they can really afford. Just because a bank says you are approved to borrow X amount does not mean you should take out that big of a loan. But what about the people who pay their mortage and can afford it...but are way upside down on their home now after the market tanked....raw deal for those people especially if they need to move
Good post and I agree. I get invited to speak to an economics class for a local junior college and also a local High School business class each year about personal finance and insurance. I stress the improtance of waiting until you can pay cash for most things. I also encourage them to not go out and buy a new car as soon as they land their first job. In fact, a new car seldom makes sense for anyone if they have to borrow the money. Most of them look at me like I am an alien. You are right, there needs to be an entire class on personal finance that is required. Having me in for one hour does little to nothing for most kids.
Especially when they watch their parents do it. It becomes "normal" to live in debt. Look at the credit score system. That is a debt score system. Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
your post couldn't be more true. it also leads me to ask which option will move us forward as a country, more educated people or more jobs? now excuse me i'm running late to signing the loan papers for my 3rd Harley,
You touch on a great point. In the insurance industry now, nearly all companies run credit scores and in some way base auto and home rates on it. The people that have little to no money borrowed and dont use their credit cards for everything have little to no credit score and get the shaft. I have had older, retired couples that are worth several million dollars have either low credit scores or come up a "no hit" becasue it has been years since they have had to borrow any money. It all seems a little backwards. Most of them that are worth millions did so by not living off borrowed money. They paid cash for everything beyond homes and farms. If they didnt have the cash, they waited until they did.
There are jobs that people aren't trained/ educated for now. Proper education will go a long way. Demand for goods drives the job market. The more money people have, the more demand. The 2 go hand in hand . Sounded like a politician's answer:D Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
A white dude from Kentucky posts graphs singling out a race for negative reasons, but he's not prejudice. Suuuuurrrrre, thats believable. You should try politics.
I'm quoting myself to add that if the the goods that are in demand are outsourced then we have not created nearly as many quality jobs. There in lies the problem. Companies need incentive to stay home and they must be able to compete. Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
Believe what you will but the fact of the matter is we need to get the schools in the minority areas safe for the kids to actually go to school.(inner cities) Then when they can get an education,and that will help them get work. The graphs show that government assistance is not helping the problem. Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
You also conveniently read over the fact i said it is a social issue. That means it is OUR problem as a SOCIETY. This is exactly why no one wants to tackle the issue. When they do, they're labeled a racist. What an *** Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
I apoligize but I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you ummm.. You'r saying that a majority of the people looking for jobs aren't trained or educated for them. I think that a bit for fetch. the number of students gradutating is higher than the rate they find jobs. not to mention the fact that more working people are returning to get an higher education then ever in the history of the US. I say we are very much trained/ educated for now. It seems, that expereirence is being weighed more then education these day's or at least in the telecomunications industry. I have a A.A and B.S degree along with about 16 years of experiance, yet I'm either over qualified or they can't afford me when i apply for jobs. SUCK's but it true. Recently, My youngest brother argued with me that Obama's college loan's aid package will get the country out of the economic crisis we are in. I asked how's that? his responce was that people like him would be able to pay off loans without spending all of their money. My responce was are you buying houses or cars with this new found money, no they are spending more at the bars. Sorry but I don't beleive little nickles and dimes will end the crisis we face. I'm not saying Mitt will be any better, but I'm saying we need to do what ever it take to get companies to create more jobs. We are so ****ed my friends! next thing you know we will have to give 10% of our incomes to shot deer.
Next time your at the unemployment office, get a list of jobs in your area. You will most likely find hundreds, if not thousands. Problem is there are few qualified for them. I agree with you that there are many educated people out of work. But there are areas that jobs are available and people aren't trained to do them. Filling those will help get things on the right track. Helping companies compete at home will also help. Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
