Yes, I came back...not sure if I should regret it or not, 3 days back and I'm already arguing about gun laws in the water cooler LOL. This is one of those things where it's a terrible thing that happened, and that evil moron who carried out this attack on innocent people has people arguing back and forth. Luckily we can all agree that he was evil and that none of us want innocent people to die and when it comes to the rest of it, it's ok that we disagree on things. By no means do I take disagreements personal nor do I carry differences into the next thread. I hope everyone knows that and encourage them to be the same (not implying people don't - just saying). We are all (mostly) respectful here and I wouldn't have come back otherwise. EDIT: Since I think we're all planted firmly on this, I respect the debate and I don't want to participate in it anymore. See you in the next thread
Laws and subsequent punishments are deterrents. If you don't think more people would be murdered if it was legal, then you are crazy enough that a law should prevent you from owning a gun. I don't understand the logic that mass shootings aren't preventable. The harder you make it for someone to murder, the more deterred they will be from doing it. This is true for anything. Doesn't mean some won't make it happen, but history shows it will deter more than it won't.
more deterrent in what form is the question. I would say medically diagnosed mental illness of certain types should be treated about the same as convicted felons, can't own a gun or live in a residence with a firearm. but I've also seen people asking that every gun owner be required to go through mental examinations and that is way beyond what I would support. May not sound the best, but we have been lucky with the mass killings that we have experienced. And I say lucky that they were not worse. I've been saying for a long time, just wait until somebody pisses off somebody who knows what the are doing and Vegas is the closest to that as we have experienced. but he even made mistakes. Had he not set off the smoke detector he might still be shooting. Hell if somebody sat in a hotel room like that with a suppressed bolt action rifle nobody would have the first idea where the shooting was coming from for probably hours.
2/3 of US gun deaths are from suicide. Many of the mass shooters were being treated for various, what are categorized as, mental health issues (depression, anxiety, etc). If the intent is to reduce gun deaths, this would be a good place to truly start. It does get sticky very quickly from here...who should have the info for med, pharmaceutical and gun ownership details? How is info shared it maintained to stay current? Any many more big brother questions to follow.... Edit: the above does not address other mass violence incidents or terroristic acts. Which is what I believe a different emotional/political issue/discussion.
Like many others moving on from the thread. Sad part is there isn't a solution. Locating the next madman before it happens is next to impossible. Sure someone might turn someone in and a small arsenal is found and suspected madman removed from the street but no one knows how successful it would or would not have been, justbe thabkful it did not occur. The successful ones are always the problem looking for a solution , but that solution to tht problem is no longer valid for the next one. It's a never ending cycle. Every time one of these mass killings occur, lessons are learned. But they are learned by both the preventors and the aggressors. Copycats learn what went wrong and how to improve on a previous attack. They will always be one step ahead as time is alwys on their side. Domestic or foreign, you can be assured somewhere plams are well underway for the next one. 9/11 took a lot of time to set up, imagine what a little more time would have yielded. Chicago doesnot hvea gun violence problem. They have a gang violence problem. Get rid of the gangs and the gun violence and illegal guns go away. Solve that problem by prosecuting the laws on the books not letting a 3 time felon plea his way to misdemeanor. Or how about prosecuting for straw purchases. Wasn't long ago a lady in Chicago was arrested on 6 or more counts of straw purchasing and was gicen probation and a small fine. Chicago politicians want, more like need, the violence so they can stay in control of their dictatorship. I think the same can be said about a lot of your Democratic politicians. They want sanctuary, they want terrorists to be free and they want madmen runing among us. It's the states and cities they control that have the highest crime rates in the nation.
It doesn't matter. Is it any more of a tragedy when 58 people are killed in one place as is to have 762 murders, 3,550 shooting incidents, and 4,331 shooting victims in one year from just one city?
Yes. I own an AR because I want to! That's reason enough don't you think? Sent from my LG-H820 using Tapatalk
Just gonna leave this here!!!! But this time I am going to say that I am proud to hang out and chat here! BeCaAuSe all of you are FREE to think--- say--- and act the way you do because we live in the USA!!! Forever free till the day we die!!! hunt hard-- play hard--- and live simple in his grace!!!
Just idea, I am tired of doing nothing, it's more to bring down gun deaths and crime in general. When I see 58 people get killed, who were just at a concert, I am sick of hearing about 1000 people who died in the city. So let's try and make it better for both.
I do not have an AR, I find my model 12 savage much more effective for yotes, and the glock does the trick at home.
Depends what you're trying to solve. There likely isn't a solution to stopping all mass shootings, but there is likely a solution to reducing them. But it's easier to hide behind "nothing you can do to prevent it" if that supports your position. Let's make this conversation even more interesting. Let's bring in more politics and race. It has been mentioned how low life liberals have been taking advantage of this situation to push their gun ban. Let's not act like if the shooter were a Muslim, the right wouldn't be pushing the Muslim ban again. This is how politics are played today. Sad, but true. Both sides suck. So race...like I mentioned if the shooter had been Muslim, we need ban. Hispanic, we need a wall. Black, tougher police and consequences. White, and well, just nothing you could do about it. Whites make up 52% of mass shooters. Next closest is blacks at 16%. No one finds this intriguing? You can only avoid uncomfortable conversations for so long.
That's your choice and it's my choice to own as many AR's as I see fit. Amazingly none of them have ever been used in a crime and never will unless it's defending my family from a crime.
What's intriguing about that? 63.7% of the US population is white, 12.2% are black. So using your logic, blacks are more likely by percentage to be a mass shooter than whites.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045216 White make up about 77% of the US population Blacks make up about 13% Hispanics about 18% Uhm..."Muslim" isn't a race.... Point...the rates and percentages you quoted somewhat follow the percentages of US population race make up. Except it's disproportionately slanted higher on the black side...so yes...I suppose that is intriguing...or maybe I'm just racist for reading the numbers. Maybe we could split mass shooters up by their political affiliation.
Just for comparison - exponentially many, many, many more homicides are committed by handguns compared to semi-auto rifles every year. By the numbers, semi auto rifles are one of the least illegally used weapons in private hands. I am about as 2A as you could possibly be - I'm for legal open carry (even though doing so is stupid for a number of reasons), Constitutional concealed carry, deregularization of suppressors, etc. I'm a proud NRA Life member. That being said; I am OK with amending the FFA to include bump stocks and slide fires. If the weapon functions as a full auto it should be regulated as one. But even that would not have prevented this tragedy - in fact, it may have made it worse. I have shot a bump stock AR. I also have shot full auto, and 3 shot burst. Quite frankly, other than being a helluva lot of fun to shoot, they all suck. They do not make for efficient shooting. The death toll could have been exponentially higher if the shooter had used a standard semiauto AR with the scope. The dude was over 400 yards away.
I wish I could answer the "How to" to keep events like this from occuring. Sure, we could reduce mass shootings, but can we reduce mass killings? That's why I don't like the term mass shooting, it focuses on the gun more than the event. So in turn the topic comes to how can we get rid of guns, not how do we solve mass killings. Outdoor events and gatherings are the new target in the terrorist world. Be it trucks, bombs or shootings. So one step would be giving into the terrorists and isolating exposure at big events by moving them inside. Yet that only really removes one or two ways to kill in mass. Much like New Years celebrations in NYC and other high profile outdoor events having large dump trucks filled with sand acting as fortified blockades to keep large vehicles from plowing crowds. It won't be long before the next tactic is revealed. We constantly try to react to how we prevent the one that just happened while those laying in wait switch tactics. I'm just glad I am half way through life in this world, it's not going to get better anytime soon. There is too much division and hatred in this country and against this country. Started way before Trump and Obama and it will continue well after them.
