Unions .... are you for them in TODAY'S society?

I guess its gonna depend on where you work and what you have seen. For me its just the opposite, We use to be fully Union, We specialized in different areas of equipment rebuild and repair and we had top notch work done that had great longgevity. NOW they are farming out that same work we used to do to non union contractors and the work is terrable, and just throwed together. I dont know how many times I have overheard (acccidently) that the company had called in OT non union workers and got ahold of some of them at the local Bar and actually let them work!! What they have done is getting the same work done for much cheaper but it dosent hold up, so im not seeing the savings in this kind of thinking. The contractors dont care, other than just a paycheck, getting laid off and then sitting back and drawing unemployment while they are out fishing. I hear it from them all the time just ranting!!

 

All I can say is this is a totally foreign language to me. Self employed all my life.

 

LOL, I agree!!

 

if unions guaranteed quality work (they don't) and competitive pricing (they don't) then I would be all for them... in Chicago the big unions (electricians, plumbers, riggers, etc.) basically amount to price fixing and limiting competition, nothing more... once you get out to the distant burbs it isn't so bad... on the whole though, I think unions have largely out lived their original purpose... things like OSHA and the NLRB and employment laws that are on the books have supplanted their origins... now unions are for nothing more than negotiating higher wages/benefits even when the demand for that work doesn't meet those prices they have set...

I'm not gonna post in this thread again cuz this is a worse he said/she said topic than ford/chevy/dodge, bowtech/mathews/hoyt, or bears/packers/vikings

 

So you are opposed to Americans making a decent wage?

I am willing to pay that price for good paying American jobs.

 

What is decent?

The problem I have is that we have outrageous wages around these parts and it will only get worse. The painters are the bottom of the pay barrel and they are making $36.00 an hour to paint. I understand that a sparky might need more training, as does a plumber or carpenter but $36.00 to paint? It's not like these guys have chemical engineering degrees behind them, and they make upwards of what a chemical engineer would make in these parts($80-100k)

 

You know I adore you Lawrence.. but I'm actually okay with a painter making $36 an hour. I know its not rocket-science.. but in order for them to even live in the American society that exists today.. gotta make what the rest are making. At least.. what the middle-class is making. What still exists of it.

See.. the big problem I see in this discussion is lots of peeps pointing fingers in the wrong direction. If you think union wages are bad and effect you... try looking at the worlds LARGEST employer... the federal govt.

These people employed here make completely ridiculous wages.. and have 3 TIMES the vacation hours and sick days etc that ANYONE of us will ever see. And here's the kicker... its ON YOUR TAX DOLLAR.

So.. if you wish to point blame... try looking at govt.

See.. their employees makes boat-loads to do half the work all of us do in the private sector.. and its us paying for it.

Screw talking unions... look a little closer at your mail-man.. your librarian... sorry to say it... even your over-compensated fireman. And the list goes on and on.

All these proffesions is what keeps private sectors wages rising.. including the unions. In order to just be middle-class you need to make higher wages.. because the middle-class in our own govt. make SO MUCH more.. AND DON'T FORGET.. ITS ON YOUR TAXES.

It's like a system that continuously cycles... over and over again.

TAX.. pay... TAX some more.

If the govt. cut its wages on 75% of its OVER-PAID work force... just by bringing them down to private sector levels... OH HOW THE WORLD WOULD CHANGE.

Unfortunately.. that will never happen.

Oh.. and Raceway.. your walls being out-of-plumb has more to do with something else than just the carpenter... but thats an entirely different rant.

Blame your builder!

 

The rest of middle class America is making $36 an hour? Middle class is making $36 an hour?

 

Your missing the point.

But yes... thats middle-class union wage in the Chicago area. Of course not everywhere... but I expect that to be a given.. since Raceway stated where he's from.

 

I don't think I'm missing the point. So your typical painter makes 80k a year working 40 hours a week? Plus benefits? That's ok with everyone?

 

Dang Duke, did the same builder get you too??? Your house sits on land that my wife's great aunt sold to the bastards, my hunting hole for life is now your backyard;(

The guy delivering mail still makes less than the painter, the wife's father is a retired mailman and does he ever grip about how hard his job was. Most government job pay is at or above prevailing wage and it is ridiculous. Sadly we are increasing the size and scope if this tax draining machine and I agree with you since the government is a cost structure, unlike the Unionized construction outfits.

I still think the postal carrier should make more than the painter, the postal worker needs to organize mail, walk several miles in some cases and deal with deadly dog attacks The painter is merely rolling and brushing his way to the upper middle class

I am still in full support of Unionizing WalMart! Seriously, I do believe there are places for the Unions in our society and they play a vital role.

P.S. aren't most Postal Workers in the American Postal Workers Union?

 

Believe it or not there is more to being a painter than just rolling walls. The fumes and toxins that they are exposed to on a daily basis more than make up for their pay scale.

I am speaking for the commercial sector, as I have no experience with residential painting practices.

But you guys looking from the outside wanting to point fingers at another mans profession is unjustified, especially when you really have no idea on what their scope of work entails.

 

IMO, Unions do one thing - eliminate trust between the workers and the management.

Trust is the link to all things - it slows and quickens everything. Trust is very very costly.


36x40x52 = $74,800.....that a lot of jack for a painter that doesn't own his own company. Not saying it is not justified - but makes me wonder.

All things equal - non union companies are easier to work in and be apart of - IMO.

It's very very easy to point the finger at the government. Let's not cry over spilled milk.

 

Give me a break! The union painter is exposed to more "fumes and toxins" than the self employed guy? That makes up for his 80k a year salary? Not buying any of it. I (in my spare time of running a business, booking golf tournaments, running leagues, giving lessons, plumbing, electrical, irrigation technician, equipment operator, ordering, scheduling, carpentry, mechanic, etc.....) do all the spraying of fungicides, insecticides and herbicides on the golf course. I'm pretty certain that the "fumes and toxins" that I ingest in one application greatly exceeds that of a union painter in an entire decade.

 

I painted full time for a year and a a half and on and off for nearly 10 years for extra work on the side. I have smelled the fine aroma of many stains, covered my face with Vaseline so that the overspray from the metal rafters in commercial buildings would wipe off my face, used a respirator when needed and climbed on roofs and ladders to reach window trim and siding. I have hacked up latex paint after back rolling many a house and spent countless hours getting overspray out of my eyes. I am passionate about this because I have been there and the last guy I know working Union is about to start a non-Union company because he is fed up with the Union.

 

I just came in from playing around outside.. and cleaning out the chicken coop. So I don't know if it's the dust in my eyes or what.... but as I scrolled through the new posts I swear I read the title to this post as:

Unicorns .... are you for them in TODAY'S society?

(and for the record, I'm against unicorns in today's society, their time is over.... :D )

 

I never said he deserves more than a self employed painter. You made that part up. I think they all deserve to be payed that scale.

I think my buddies who golf have to pay to much to play a round. Maybe you and all of the other courses should lower your fees?

My cell phone bill with Verizon is $250 a month. The same service with sprint was $200. I think I pay to much for cell service. Maybe they should cut Verizon employees salary so they can lower all of our monthly bills so we won't have to negotiate a raise in my next union contract.

 

They can't, the pesticides and fertilizer they are breathing in cost too much. Imagine the course fees if everyone was Unionized

 

Which is why I'm okay with his scale of pay. I work with them regularly... I know what they do. I know the health risk they take.

I also work with our postoffice employees... and let me just say WOW... you have no idea what goes on in a post office. They literally have 1 guy doing just 1 job... and he does it in 3 or 4 months. I'm not saying their a whole lot better than a union... but these guys should piss you off... cause YOU pay their salaries.

Trust me... I have to work with many. They even literally have assistants to the assistant to the assistant. Many get like 6 weeks paid vacation... another 15 or more sick days etc. Are you kidding... On my tax dollar.

Who in the private sector gets 6 weeks paid vacation? On-top of all the other benefits.

I work in an industry that allows me to see right into both union and non-union shops.. as well as govt employees.

TRUST ME... worry about the govt employees.. they effect you everyday... cause YOU PAY THEIR SALARY!

As far as union.. and am I for them in todays society.. I'm for them.. they are just about the only thing left anymore fighting for the mid-class worker who still works the body to just about death... eventually.

Although... I don't belong to one.. and never will.

 

What is fuuny, is these union companies you are bashing for getting over paid bid the same jobs as the non union companies.

The lowest bidder recieves the contract.

So how does a union company paying their employees more than the non union sector still submit the low bid, recieve the contract and still turn a profit?

Answer that