Unions .... are you for them in TODAY'S society?

Another thread got me thinking about unions....

Most would agree that unions were a necessity at their inception .... but that was a long time ago....... are they needed in a day where there are cameras everywhere? Are they hurting America's economy?......thoughts?

 

BTW.... my dad is a retired Tool and DIe Man from Ford and I am an ex unit chairman for the Steelworkers .........

 

I'm all for 'em......if their presence can see the workers they represent remain viable.

I know of several industries/companies that operate under union control......that are healthy.

 

Josh ,,, what do you do, if you dont mind me asking ......

another question ..... if they MAKE you work 80 hours a week ..... where is the union help? I see some OT being mandatory....but 80 hours a wekk??

 

The union I belong to has protected my raises and my job recently. Greedy or not i'm glad to be part of AFSME, with all of the recent Pa state worker furloughs. I worked with several people who got the boot a couple months ago, no questions asked and no fighting it because they were considered "management".

 

Not a fan. Was in the Plumbers local back around 11 years ago but left for my current career, got sick of a kid that got fired twice and his Uncle kept getting him back on the job. Unions do not fare well in my current industry, the unionized company ranks lowest or second lowest in J.D. Powers and Consumer Reports for Customer Service Satisfaction.

 

God knows no one would question our teachers union.

Their union rules.............two years tenure and you are employed for life............ ya that works well. Cops or firefighters are untouchable.

Of course everyone knowns there are no bad ones..............................


If your job sucks and you hate it.

Go get one you like

 

I've seen unions drive many a good business into the ground..That being said I've always been on the Management end. If I was a protected unproductive worker..I might view them differently!

 

I'm all for Unions, I have been a member in good standing now going on 12 years in my local!

 

I got mixed feelings on them.
I work in an industry where unions are strong.
The company I work for is a non union shop.
We have as good if not better benifits as some union places. We get along with management where some union places the management employee relationship is strained to say the least.
Our pay scale is right up there with the union pay.
Naturally the company wants to keep the union out so they keep our wage /benifit package very comparable.
So in essence the we have the unions to thank for this.

 

Based on my own fairly limited dealings with unions, I don't care for them at all.

 

pro union and proud of it, we live in a modest home and take modest vacations and put some money away for my kids college without it i would still be grinding out a meger existance . the unions r keeping the middle class afloat .

 

Absolutely Not...

...and never will be.

Yes there was a time when they were a necessity, however that time has passed. We as a society have created regulations and guidelines so that employers can not ever fully take advantage of the employee. They were created in a time when unemployment was nearly 25% and there were no rules for the treatment of employees.

In many cases unions and the mentality the put forth is one in which the employee does not work for the company, they work for the union. That in its self is inherently bad for the long term success of the company and hence the employees/community. There has to be a long term relationship between the company and the workforce and the union is nothing more than a barrier to that relationship.

The union mentality has also deteriorated the work ethic of the work force. Where once an employee may have done what was necessary to get a job done efficiently and effectively they now only worry about their job, without considering the big picture. This loss of connection to long term has worm down the employers/companies and drive up costs. Connects to the statement above.

The cost to benefit ratio for the unions, what they provide a company and the community is not in balance. Consider the expenses that Ford has that relate to the UAW. Toyota pays none of those and builds a better product and has attained a stronger competitive advantage as well as a better long term position. The employees that work at Toyota are no worse off than those that work at Ford, and as someone pointed out in the "Would you buy a Toyota?" thread, they were happier working for Toyota(?).

I understand how those of you that support the unions are happy with them because they may have saved your job, but at what cost? If you have a job now and the company that you work for is loosing money how 'good' can that be. There are no positive long term benefits to holding a company hostage, especially in times like these.

Consider Boeing and the situation they have been put in with their machinist union. They go on strike every three years and they hold out longer if they know that the company is in negotiations for selling a new plane or military contract, now half of the Dreamliner project is going to South Carolina, and all new employees starting at a lower wage. So much for long term job security.

I have never worked for a union, and I never will. I have however, had the displeasure of working with some in the construction industry over the past 20 years, and to say the least I was disappointed in their skill, work ethic, and attitude toward the job. Costs were driven up and profits down.

There are only a few places that one can go to work where you get paid based on longevity rather than your ability, Unions and Communist countries. Unions are socialism at its finest.

 

Something for thought--------
A large city just north of me is trying to work out a budget deficit.

The city announced a plan for municipal employees(union and no Union) to take a few furlough days and reduced pay raises or face layoffs. The number of furlogh days and possible layoffs was actually greater in the non union group of employees.

The non union group just basically accepted the proposal as they didnt have a union forcing it to a vote. The Union workers all put it to a vote thru each of their unions. The non union employees all still have jobs.-there may have been a few layoffs or earlly retirement offers

The unions voted not to accept the proposal. So the city layed off certain numbers from each division of its union labor force. Naturally layoffs would be those with least seniority. So the majority of the union workers voted it down knowing they were safe. I have always heard how union workers are "brothers" and its all about union brotherhood. Doesnt seem like they took care of their brothers to me.
Wouldnt the brotherly thing to do be to accept the proposal so all have jobs?
All the non union workers do (as it wasnt voted on)

Isnt taking a few furlough days and a reduced pay raise better than no job ??

 

The sad thing is that times are tough and Unions fail to realize it. Instead of working together with an agreement of better compensation down the road when things recover, they threaten to strike and shut down the workforce.

A neighbor of mine's family business had five Union drivers that delivered building materials. Their Union contract was coming up and they felt they couldn't make a living on their wages, even though they were at the top 90% of pay for the Chicago area. These guys wanted a $4.00 raise for another three years and the company was nearly under due to the economy and lack of construction. These drivers could care less if the company survived as long as they get their raise. The strike lasted almost three months and the drivers were without pay. In the end they negotiated a $1.50 raise. Two of the drivers were laid off within a month leaving three drivers who eventually were laid off in the next few months because the company was unable to justify their pay. Throughout all of this my neighbor and his two brothers drove a lot of materials around until the business went under two months ago.

In the end the Union could have cared less if the company survived. Their drivers were already paid well, considering they were in the suburbs and not delivering hazardous material. During the negotiations the company said they needed the drivers to take a pay cut or possibly face layoffs. The drivers knew the company claims and had no empathy for the business, they only cared about themselves. In the end the drivers would have fared better by taking a pay cut or no raise than they did through three months of no work and eventual layoffs.

For companies to succeed they need employees that are ambassadors of the company, these workers need to believe and promote the company. How is it ever good when a Unionized employee is more concerned about the Union? How can one have a working relationship with their company if they need a mediator? What are Unions doing for their members who are faced with no job skills outside the one they are laid off from? Case in point a friend who is a painter in the Union making $36.00 an hour to paint a damn house. He isn't working and being a high school dropout is left in a position where he can't find work.

Can anyone tell me how increasing wages in a recession is productive to reducing the overall debt load many companies are faced with? If the economy is doing bad how can the Union demand raises for cost of living, we are all suffering through this aren't we? Where is the Union when things are tough, do they care about recovery or just increasing wages that end up driving the cost of goods and services up when people are faced with less ability to pay more?

 

So raceway, how much of a paycut did you offer to your Company to help them out in these tough times? Just curious...

 

I dont think anyone would offer to have their pay reduced.
Perhaps they would understand why they didnt get a cost of living raise or a reduced one.
I wouldnt have been too happy if I didnt get my cost of living raise this year.
Wouldnt have went on strike though. Im non union so I couldnt have..but I feel the lost wages I would have suffered if I was able to strike would never have been recovered.------The raise would not have made up the difference.


Bowhuntingfool-----since you asked ............lets say your union was offered a reduced raise / no raise or face layoffs of the 5-10 least seniority guys. Do you vote it down for the entire raise or do you accept it and protect your union brothers jobs?
Also if the union did strike do they collect union dues while you are off?? Does the union BA still draw a check?

 

We are a little different that most, we work at different theatres/arenas and ampitheatres around the city. We have different contracts with each. And yes we have voted on pay cuts for all employees at a few venues, Sometime the ones most affected by this are the top guys that work solely in a certain venue!

Yes my BA stills get paid which I have no problem with!

 

Back when Clinton was running for President, I was a shop steward in a union Tool & Die Shop (not my idea). The union supported Clinton, he was from a "Right to Work" state for heavens sake. But he was the Democrat so they supported him. When I questioned them about it, they said he was the lesser of 2 evils. Some choice!

After that incident I always said, If Mickey Mouse was a Democrat, they would support him too. And he might do a better job of running the country too. :D

 

None, my company is growing in the recession. My company runs a pretty decent profit margin and we have the highest pay in the industry. My wife also works for the company and her job was eliminated since many regional roles are being phased out. She is still getting her pay to take Customer Service calls until she finds another position. Could be a blessing as she has had some Business Sales Channel job interviews where she would make more money than she was.

I am in a rare situation but we have lived under our means and have plenty saved should we become unemployed. In other words we are not spending like fools and then looking for a cost of living raise to begin with We have planned for hard times and if they fall upon us we are set to survive with pay cuts or without a job.

What we have both done is go back to school to get our Bachelor's degrees to further position ourselves should we need to look outside of the company or go higher in the company. If I get the position I interviewed for last week then I will also get my Masters. In the end I am not going to sit around hoping that a bargaining group is going to take care of me. I have too many friends who lived fat when times were good thinking they would have it made forever. Instead many are laid off and have no training outside of their "Trade" and can't pay their debts.

I can see in some cases that the Union might be beneficial; however, with current labor laws and the fact that we are pricing ourselves out of manufacturing I can't see how Unions are doing the country much good. In other words Union wages have gone up to a point where you can't produce affordable goods here in the good ole USA.

Does anyone in this forum think that a Union Painting Journeyman should get $36.00 an hour to roll paint on a wall? Most of them are sitting on their butts while minority owned companies have two to three guys working per Union Journeyman at the Unionized Painting Company