Then you admit Romney is a socialist? Being he passed and architected what basically now is Obama care. So why is it socialist policy, please point it out to me. Tfox I remember the comment from the campaign, not exactly what I got out of it.
You make more stuff up than Obama does. I'm glad I'm getting old. I don't want to be around when you finally realize you've been duped and they give everything you have to some illegal alien or someone who's never held a job, paid their way or helped anyone. LOL
What exactly did I make up? Did Romney not pass healthcare reform in Mass.? It's real easy to do what our media does and just state "that's not true" without facts to support it. So please tell me what I made up and list some actual facts.
Dave let me add If you are not a citizen of this country you should not receive any benefits. If you come here illegally and work it's at your own risk. I love how when you ask folks to backup their claims they change subject.
It's the same agenda. Obama is Obama. You can't take one part of him without all the rest. He's destroying this country... or at least he's trying and he has pawns like you singing his praise. Romneys plan in Mass is far different than what Obama has planned for us. I don't like Romney either.... but he's no where as evil as Obama.
Romney plan is very similar, the one difference is price controls. Maybe you can help me out in the differences I have missed besides price control piece. Again do you have any actual facts? I am all ears and really want to hear them. Where have I sang any praises, just ask some to backup their claims. Typical just make stuff up when you disagree, right out of NBC, and foxes handbook
Really? You are making this way to easy. Individual mandate healthcare (Obamacare to you) was originally advocated by the REPUBLICAN'S back in 1993. Romney, the Godfather of Obamacare, now tries to distance himself from it. Republicans called the individual mandate a “market-based” approach to health care reform. They made the same case for it that Obama made — that in order to expand insurance coverage, healthy people should buy in, too. It can’t work if people just wait till they’re old or sick to get coverage. Now, fast forward to recent times. Republicans who once championed the individual mandate now call it “socialism.”
The more we look at it in one side vs the other, the farther we get from solutions. I've been involved with learning the ins and outs of Obamacare for a year now since it directly affects the outcome of my chosen profession. Parts are great, parts are completely bogus. The bottom line, even those in charge of it don't fully understand it. But that isn't what matters to those involved, the right want it abolished for who figure heads it as much as the left want it blindly passed through for who's name is attached to it. I think it should be repealed, and a new reform be built up from the ground up. They tried to provide a HUGE all encompassing umbrella bill that no one understands fully. Instead, start with just the handle and build up only those parts which people can find a middle ground on. Forcing everyone into government regulated insurance isn't the answer IMO. but I am certainly not naive enough to believe that insurance isn't a huge problem for America. Healthcare costs are driven sky high by the insurance companies. Most chain retail pharmacies are accepting LOSSES on the bulk of the prescriptions they fill in hopes of making it up in front store sales once you are in the door. The payouts pharmacists are forced to accept are nearing criminal robbery. Walgreens is finally trailblazing by taking a stand and dropping Insurance companies such as Express Scripts which is a HUGE part of their customer base. What does Rite Aid and CVS do? Circle around like scavenging wolves to pick up the scraps instead of joining Walgreens in a fight for fair pricing from insurance companies. I have literally studied parts of the bill as part of my grad school/profession for a year now and can't even begin to wrap my head around it. Anyone on a hunting forums who attempts to act as if they understand/support it fully/oppose it fully is only kidding themselves and everyone else in the argument.
U said to give u one example of O'Bamma's policies of socialist agenda. I did with O'Bamma care but you acted like O'Bamma by trying to deflect it by bringing Romney into it. Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
I also ask what makes Obama care socialism? Anyone? I just pointed out if Obama-care is a socialist policy, then so is Romney care.
Someone who actually studied the problem and read some of the bill. Everyone should not be required to have insurance? So how do we handle the free loaders? One of the few pieces I like is Mandating everyone needs to have health insurances. Should people not be responsible for their healthcare,
Accusations without facts, and if you ask for facts, then you support the other side. Groundhog's Day. You know I never miss a chance to post this. Yeah because people on hunting forums are dumb.
Well yeah, I mean you said it.... Lol I think we both know that I meant people on a hunting forum watching Fox or CNN before dinner aren't the best sources for a healthcare bill. And germ, idk man to be honest. I don't have the answers. I know some of the answers are indeed in the bill. We are paid to treat chronic preventable diseases AFTER they happen... Not a single dime goes toward preventing it in the first place. I don't think any legislature or insurance plan will fix the inner problem. We as a country need to change our living habits, and we as healthcare providers need to quit being territorial. Every shred of evidence points towards team based outcomes being greatly approved, yet we still have the system of MD doing everything, pharmacist just fillin the script, no one is accountable. Follow up appointments aren't tracked. Medical records aren't shared. Why doctors still have power of prescribing is beyond me, they have 1-2 semesters of pharmaceutics in med school compared to doctors of pharmacy who specialize in it for 4 years. From a business stand point, the mandate will do nothin but boost sales for me coming out of school as it takes effect by adding 35 million people to our client base....I just dont know if the proposed track to do so is the best, but instead of looking at it we are too focused on destroying it all together or rushing it through. I'm not an expert on it by any means, far from it!
Sorry, I checked out yesterday just when all this was getting good. Actually I threw my rock and ran. LOL. Okay what we are talking about is Socialism/ Marxism. Yes, Romney, the feigned "real conservative" comes dangerously close to being a socialist... IMO. What many are not getting is that it is our value systems that drive our policies. Obama has a value system that drips with marxist ideals but you have to read the Communist, Humanist Manifestos to hear that he gives direct or nearly direct quotes straight from these documents. Admittedly, so did GHWB. He was elected on Regan's coat tails but didn't have a clue what Regan stood for. W was a bit better IMO but still got some things confused with Marxist ideologies such as No Child Left Behind. 1. New World Order 2. Redistribution of Wealth 3. Government Mandated and Managed Insurance 4. Public Schooling (No Child Left Behind... Bush) 5. Government Controlled Energy ( Some is good... but they have definitely overstepped) 6. Sitting under Reverend White for 20 + years without knowing that "Not God Bless America... God D#*& America" is contrary to the moorings of the rest of America. 7. Attempts to deny churches tax exempt status. 8. Attempts at Censorship of Media. All stem from Marxist ideologies. I agree we have many problems but throwing the baby out with the bath water is certainly not the answer we need. Marxism is not the solution. I do agree, it is ridiculous for hospitals to get away with charging hundreds of thousands of dollars for a weekend stay while uninsureds go free. It is the government that mandated that hospitals must treat those without insurance. So now to correct it, the government is going to require everyone to have insurance. Come on, really. How about, no one has to "by law" treat someone who can't or won't pay. Keep the free clinics, however that gets funded, I don't know, but any ideology that abandons our Constitution is out of the question as far as I am concerned.
If the government mandating how I spend my money isn't socialism, I guess I'm just dumb and don't understand socialism. It is an unprecedented change our governments philosophy. In my opinion, it encroaches on the individual freedoms laid out in the constitution. Could you please spell out to me how that is not Socialism. remember, we're talking about socialism, not communism.
Skywalker Do you own a car and have to pay insurance? Who mandates that you have insurance? I do not know if mandating people have healthcare or not is socialism or not. I think we can list several other options besides one I listed where money you spend is mandated. That sad part is we have to mandate it so some take responsibility for their healthcare. I agree with Tembry that the main issue how we take care of ourselves as a nation. For the record I want Obama-care repealed and would like insurance that covers major issues, and would love to have healthcare account setup for preventive care. What I am tired of is the lemmings of fox news and NBC just making stuff up. If we force people to pay for their healthcare will they do a better job of taking care of themselves. I have read about Canada's plan cover to cover. Here is my issue with it, it does not make the person take responsibility for their healthcare. Like many here or all I do not want my tax dollars covering people who smoke, drink too much, drugs and are obese. I do want a better system than what we have now. Do I think Obama is a socialist, no. Do I agree with all his policies? No. If Romney comes back to the middle and he will, he wins. Right now both sides have policies that mandate what we spend our money on.
So the real issue is not in choosing which side to be on but that two sides exist in the first place! Neither side seems to be able to agree with the other. Why? Because the Constitution has been tossed out of the equation. Bring it back and do what it says even when it doesn't give some special interest group an advantage over someone other special interest group. Send the stinking lawyers to Canada and let them meddle in the health care business up there for a while. Shut down the NEA and allow local jursidictions to teach children the values that our founding fathers and most Americans hold dear and let South Dakota and Alaska decide if they want to dig a stupid hole within their own borders. Reverse the tax system so that more taxes go to the states and less to the feds and make being a lifetime politician a God ordained calling of service instead of a way to steal from the poor and middle classes to feather one's own political nest. Oh' and elect someone based on Constitutional principles such as Ron Paul instead of being based on some pie in the sky notion that lazy #$$*$ should have the same blessings as those who work hard for everything they have. Okay I ranted!... Please forgive me?
The problem is there is ALWAYS an alternative up to this point. Don't want car insurance? Don't drive. Don't want your kids going through public schools? Home school or private schools exist. You can't really tell someone don't want healthcare, don't get sick. Idk how much it will help fix the prices for those of us utilizing healthcare in the first place. I fear the costs of such a program will fall on those who already have coverage and that the actual costs will dwarf the proposed numbers. Certainly a great debate either way you view it! Change has to happen, it's just a matter of how much and in what areas of healthcare
And what happens to the family who can't afford health insurance? It will be made a law that if someone can't afford health insurance, they will get it given to them by the government's mandate to the insurance company that none can be turned down based on ability to pay and those who are paying the premiums now will pay the premiums for them. That is not a "change" at all. That's exactly the way it has been for decades. We are still robbing Peter to pay Paul.
This was kind of my point...it doesn't change much besides make the burden of payment all the more obvious. Until we restructure how healthcare providers are compensated and what for, nothing will really change besides an increase in government spending.
