Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman ....

New it really does not matter, just because one person who commits a crime does who looks like x, does not make the next person who looks the same guilty or suspicious.

I lived in Detroit, we were taught to mind your own, I can remember my mom telling me not to look at anyone driving down i75 or downtown.
It was stated on here many times for Zimmerman innocent until proven guilty, why does that not apply to Trayvon?

I saw a kid walking down the street with rain boots on, and it was sunny, I guess I should have made a citizens arrest

 

Cute kid, he's probably got that backpack loaded with car stereos or something.... :D

You're totally missing the point, but good try.... The behavior was the suspicious part, add to that the recent rash of burglaries, and the suspicious acting character, who then takes off running like he has a reason to run and hide or something, what SHOULD have been a peaceful night turns deadly.... This kid doesn't look like he's going to assault someone, and then take to smashing their head into a curb either though...

Gary,
You miss the point, Trayvon wasn't deemed guilty until he's in a fight, and smashing some guy's head into a curb. Nobody said he was GUILTY of anything except being deemed "suspicious," but this is also in an area where there was some issue with burglaries, and when someone approached him, he took off running.... The further accentuates the suspicion!!! If you had seen those kids outside, just near your car, and when you opened your door, and said something to them, they'd taken off running what would you have done???

The facts that ARE available would insinuate that there was a chase, GZ lost Martin, at some point they met back up, there was an assault (could've been a mutual assault, but no evidence points towards GZ having done anything but shoot Martin), and as a result of this assault there is now a dead young man. I refuse to call him a kid/child/teenager because in the end, he was taller than the average adult male, and though thin, he essentially for all intensive purposes is of adult size, therefore in an altercation, the other person would have no idea whether he was 17 or 37.

Again, if GZ were the dead party here, and Trayvon were in Jail without a scratch on him, what would the opinion be??? Had Trayvon smashed his head just right, and caused a basilar skull fracture which caused swelling on the brain stem and killed GZ, what would the response be??? And had GZ not shot Martin, whose to say this may not have feasibly happened??? I've been in a couple fights in my day, and until the other guy is no longer fighting back, I'm still beating on him. But I've also erred toward the side of peacefulness until that was no longer an option... I can't say as for the details, but I can say that if the facts as I'm understanding them are indeed FACTS, there is no case against Zimmerman, and the NATIONAL laws would uphold his innocence, and the Florida "Stand Your Ground" law isn't even needed.

 

Harass my kid and ill smash your head into a curb ... just sayin....

 

Aren't you guys getting sick of repeating the same things over and over?

Doug, you're going to give yourself carpel tunnel.

 

Rofl!

 

I changed it up a bit, and went with their logic of innocent until proven guilty

Also I have taught my kids if a stranger is following you and starts to get close run like the wind.

 

It's the lack of logic that I find befuddling (<< is that a word?).

Innocent until proven guilty is not "our" logic, it is the way the court system is supposed to operate in regards to being charged with a crime. Seeing someone you think is suspicious in a crime ridden area is not even remotely the same thing. But hey, whatever you gotta tell yourself. GZ has been charged with a crime, he is now and should have always been presumed innocent. Furthermore, his guilt must proved beyond a reasonable doubt. Jury selection will probably be a nightmare especially if the trial stays in that part of Florida but thanks to the media circus it will probably be sucky anywhere they move it. If I were him I'd ask for a coin flip.

 

He wasn't even 100% sure what the individual looked like and we are not even talking about the individual, we are talking about an area with one of the highest crime rates in the nation. Trayvon was not charged with anything, what exactly are you talking about with the innocent until proven guilty? You don't have to be guilty of anything for people to think you might be suspicious. Don't believe me? Here's a simple experiment you can do. Go to a playground/park, don't take your kids. Walk around, sit on a bench, watch the kids playing. Think any moms or dads for that matter would consider that suspicious and be eyeballing you? Why would they, I mean you ARE inncocent.

I call bs simply because for your "logic" to hold water it would mean that you are saying that if your neighborhood was riddled with break-ins, robberies, assaults, etc. you would "mind your own" and not take notice of anythig or anyone. Yeah right, only if you were an ostrich.

 

I'll give you credit for recognizing we have LOGIC, however you didn't go with our logic because you are somehow supplanted on this theory that GZ was patrolling the neighborhood and started a fight, when we don't know that, and the evidence that has been released so far would indicate that the opposite is likely the case...

Dan,
No worries, I used to be able to type 5-10 page papers in short order and get relatively good grades on them, and that was before PC's with such good editing capabilities...

New,
You're preaching to a bunch of deaf mutes.... Gary already said he was taught to "Mind his own business," so he's not interested in anyone out there unless they're breaking into HIS car, if it's his neighbor's house, that's essentially okay, because how does he know whether they have any business getting into his neighbor's house or not???

I think reasonably speaking, considering the situation, MOST people would be suspicious of someone walking around at night in the rain. And when you start to approach that person who seemed suspicious, they make a run for it, that would only heighten the suspicions... If that doesn't heighten your suspicion, then you must be out of your mind!!! Speculating furthermore, maybe Trayvon DID have something to hide... Maybe he had to make a little run and stash his "herbs" before the police got there, so at least he didn't get in trouble for that. We ALL KNOW he was staying there because he'd gotten in trouble at school over some Marijuana and a Marijuana pipe, so maybe he was just trying to get rid of his stash, got pissed because GZ ruined his "mellow," and is now MAD!!!

We can all speculate, and that speculation makes more sense than a lot of the speculation I've heard come from the otherside.... :D

 

It simply does not matter, if the kid was doing nothing wrong why bother him. Again others crimes should not reflect on anyone else.

 

I did live in that neighborhood, house next to us was robbed, great grandmother was robbed in their home.

Nice try, huge difference between taking notice an approaching someone in the dark with a gun.

 

I never stated he started the fight, I stated he was a moron for getting out of his car. I am stunned you find your view of speculation more plausible, lol

 

Most neighborhood watch programs are just that, people in a neighborhood watching out for one anothers person/property. How can you ever know what anyone is doing? What if he was looking for an unlocked car? Not saying he was just saying as a neighborhood watch person or a non-criminal for that matter lots of actions probably seem suspect. That area is high crime and apparently lots of other folks see suspicious activity there abouts (something like 400 911 calls in that area). People(non criminals) become scared, suspicious, worried, etc. when they are constantly the prey of criminals. I'm not saying that's 100% correct way to respond but I try to understand what it might be like to live in an enviornment like that.

 

What is your point here? You said you were a kid when this happened? You'd handle yourself the same way now if your next door neighbor were robbed and then another home in your area was robbed at gunpoint? You wouldn't be more suspicious, possibly on edge, worried, maybe carry a weapon? Nothing? You'd just "mind your own"? Fair question.

 

Dude I lived in downtown Detroit, you take notice of everyone.

My point is we were smart enough not to approached them with a gun. When the house was broken into next door we ran in our house and called the police. My mothers dad pulled his gun out and stayed in the house.

I never stated taking notice by George was wrong, nor did I state he started the fight. My issue is him getting out of his car to go look for him.
I do not think it's murder two, I think it was terrible accident, but IMO Zimmerman needs to be held responsible for his initial actions.

 

Neighborhood watch. Not law enforcement.

 

But if you don't know what he's up to, he seems "suspicious," again in a high crime area, then what's the bother in just checking him out, asking him if he's lost, whatever??? His response to GZ approaching or trailing him isn't consistent with what someone who was "doing nothing wrong" would do. And he's a big boy, big enough to put a pretty good beating on GZ, so let's not make some assumption he was afraid of GZ, because I don't think that was the likely case.

So he's not allowed to get out of his car to go talk to someone??? He was on foot following him, when Martin ran... Now if Martin is "acting suspicious," then he up and runs, wouldn't that increase your suspicion, or do you think he's just out for a night-time run to get some exercise?? Because I know, when I see someone take off like that between houses in a residential area, I usually would think they were up to no good. And yes I've seen it a couple of times, once was my brother and some of his friends out doing a little doorbell dash game, the other time I wasn't sure who it was, but they were into the woods and disappeared too quickly for me to ID them in any way, shape or form.

If you're approaching someone suspicious in Downtown Detroit without a gun, I think you're a nut!!!

 

What about what Martin is thinking, lol. I get kick how some completely ignore his thought process, but I guess if it fits your view I can see why.

Hmmm this dude is following me in his car, the dude is getting out of his car and coming at me.

At the above point both my kids are hauling *** out of there.

I also get a kicked on how the captain of the watch is now the guru of what is suspicious these days.

Look at it from both sides, suspicious for a kid to be walking in the rain, sure I can buy that, I would say dumb, but will go with the guru Zimmerman.

Is it suspicious for a 28 year old to be following 17 year old kid in a car in the rain? I would say yes, and it gets weirder for a kid when the man gets out of his car and approaches him.

I guess we are only allowed one version of how and why this went down.

Innocent until proven guilty what was the kid doing wrong walking down the street?

 

Can't figure out why you keep saying innocent until proven guilty as that has absolutely no bearing on whether or not someone appears suspicious.

We don't know who did the actual approaching or exactly how the actual confrontation happened and that's a huge piece of missing info.

Hopefully we will get more info when the trial gets underway. GZ callled 911 and made arrangements to meet the officers in some part of the neighborhood, during that call he says the guy is "checking him out" so that leads me to believe they were both aware of each others presence. Now what happened after that call ended to me is the most important part. Did he lose sight of him and look for him and get jumped, did he just confront Martin outright, was he walking to where he told the police he'd be and get approached...who knows? Certainly none of us do but some posts sure don't read like that.

 

I think Trayvon got nervous being followed by a sub and tried to protect himself by hiding ... when Zimmerman came after him, he probably laid him out ... who knows ... Zimmerman shoulda stayed in the truck ... period ... dude has a God complex

BTW, he has already given conflicting stories ... shocker, eh?