Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman ....

Bruce, after reading your last post I found this the most powerful....

"The term "black on black" crime is a destructive, racialized colloquialism that perpetuates an idea that blacks are somehow more prone to violence. This is untrue and fully verifiable by FBI, DOJ and census (pdf) data. Yet the fallacy is so fixed that even African Americans have come to believe it."

 

Not to belabor the point, but the math referenced is a bit fuzzy . From the US Census 2010 website: Roughly 225 million Americans are white for a percentage of roughly 75% of the total population. Roughly 35 million are black for a percentage of roughly 12% of the total population. The fact that whites commit twice the crime that blacks commit, does not equate to whites being just as prone to criminal behaviors as blacks. I don't have a dog in the hunt here, but we do need to be careful about believing one racially biased report over another racially biased report. Of course we don't really know if the Census Report is accurate and many reports indicate it is not.

We all want a better society but slanted reporting prevent us from either responding or investing correctly and the good we would do often gets buried under bureaucratic dogmatism.

 

Bruce,
While the article is "thought-provoking," blacks are 7 times as likely to commit violent crimes as whites, 3 times as likely as Hispanics, and Asians are only about 1/4 as likely as whites to commit violent crimes...

What is missed is the details that are readily available on crime.... Williams is right about the "Black on Black" Crime to some extent, because Blacks who commit violent crime victimized whites at a slightly higher rate than blacks, and Hispanics at the lowest rate of the 3......

Williams is NOT an unbiased columnist by any means....

Unfortunately, "Black on Black" crime is NOT a myth, it's a very true and real part of our society, and while the "Civil Rights" leaders want to highlight this case, they are missing the the numerous other situations in which "their own people" are killing, robbing, and raping each other....

Read "The Color of Crime ( http://colorofcrime.com/colorofcrime2005.pdf )," it's enlightening and saddening at the same time.... Ever watch Bait Car??? I've only ONCE seen the thief be a Caucasian, the rest were all Black or Hispanic... Not saying it's a scientific study, by any means, but it's certainly not a coincidence either....

Brett,
Likewise, read "The Color of Crime" above, it's a more telling story, and a less biased source.... While Williams tells a good story, it is indeed that, just a story....

This tells a lot as well....

 

But Steele is a " refreshing look at things from an educated and intelligent black man, rather than one looking to create a controversy" because he says **** you agree with.

I never said Williams was unbiased.

I was just indicating that Steele maybe wasn't a " refreshing look at things from an educated and intelligent black man, rather than one looking to create a controversy". Maybe he was just a black guy that said some **** you agree with.


Along with what Brett posted, I did like this passage:

 

Maybe it's my reading it, but Steele seems a little LESS biased. He's made annotation that the whole situation has been exploited, which is has, he's made mention of the "creative" media coverage, which I didn't see in Williams article...

While Williams statistics may be correct, they are NOT proportionally showing the TRUE story...Steele is more HONEST and willing to acknowledge the problems in this situation... To start to solve a problem, you must first acknowledge there is a problem... Williams isn't even willing to acknowledge that there is a problem, he's attempting to divert attention, and in a VERY misleading manner, a manner many would consider LYING and DECEITFUL!!!

The reason "Black on Black Crime" is mentioned is because BLACKS are many times more likely to be murdered, assaulted, robbed, etc., by Blacks than by whites!!! The reason it is applicable is because if the "Civil Rights" leaders were focusing on fixing the problem within their own "culture," then it may repair itself outside of their culture.... We'll never have a society that is completely free of violence, but when one demographic is 7x more likely to commit violent crime vs. another, then it's an issue that SHOULD be addressed at some level, and those who are in that demographic are probably the BEST ones to address it...

I'm not responding to this in the way mentioned above, and if it's proven that Martin was shot in cold blood, then levy the penalty as justice would be then served. But from the collaboration of mixed details regarding the situation, it's a bit sketchy as to what really happened, except that Martin is dead, and GZ was taken to the police department, after being treated for a bloodied nose and lacerations to the back of his head... He's being more than cooperative with the law, or so it would seem as he didn't go on the run when charged, he peacefully turned himself in.... It's also noted that in 2010, he was a voice against racial discrimination when a black man was beaten by a white man, who happened to be the son of a Sanford Police Officer. He's characterized as someone with a criminal record, but that's not exactly the case... Otherwise, he wouldn't have passed the background check to get his CCW.....

I do not dislike black people, and have black friends, and even family. I do not believe black people in general are bad, but I DO recognize the there is an alarming amount of data that shows that their demographic is considerably more likely to commit violent crime. As a response to that blaringly obvious fact, I find it quite sad that while Jesse could admit he was "relieved" to see the approaching sound be that of a WHITE man, he's not willing to try to reach into the ghetto and start making repairs at the foundation of the problem... As Reverends, both he and Al have undoubtedly heard the parable of the foolish man who built his house on sand and the wise man who built his house on rock....

 

And yet many don't want to acknowledge the problems that created this situation. A teenager was targeted as suspicious because he was unknown to the neighborhood watch "captain", he was wearing a hoodie on a rainy day and he was black.

The problems in this situation have nothing to do with black on black crime or white on white crime. The reason black on black crime is mentioned is so that the black guy can be blamed for causing his own death. That is always the reason that BS is brought up. You can blow all the ****ing smoke you want but it is all about blaming the black guy for making the other guy shoot him to death. What a crock of ****.

The problem is an armed man, with zero training, "patrolling" a neighborhood to "keep it safe". I would have a serious problems with an armed man patrolling my neighborhood to keep it safe.

Am I the only one that would have a problem with an armed man, with no type of training by law enforcement, patrolling my neighborhood? That's where this whole incident started. An armed, untrained dumbass patrolling the neighborhood to keep it safe. What a great ****ing concept. A nightmare that was waiting to happen.

 

No you are not the only one Bruce.

 

Yes! Where the hell have you been!! :p Great post!!! :thumbup:

 

While I don't greatly like the idea of an "untrained dumbass" patrolling the neighborhood, if he's part of the crimewatch, and is a worthwhile individual, that has the right intent, then I don't see it as a "nightmare waiting to happen." If he's armed, and only willing to use his weapon appropriately, in situations to defend himself or others, then I don't see the "nightmare aspect" you allude to. The problem here is that we don't know how or when he used the weapon, we know that there was a chase that occurred, but not how it ended, Zimmerman lost Martin, then Martin found Zimmerman??? Don't know... If GZ is all beat up, and he is beat up because Martin attacked him from behind, or Martin sucker punched him, whatever, and the end result was in an attempt to save himself from further injury or even death, GZ shot Martin, then I see him as acting appropriately, and thus the reason no charges were filed.... The fact that Martin's family didn't know until the morning that he'd been shot I find VERY alarming, from a family standpoint. I'm sure there are some issues yet to be revealed that will make one side or the other have a meal of crow, just not sure which side yet....

 

I think Brick killed a guy.

 

I don't have a "side" in this. For all I know zimmerman didn't commit a crime.

My problem is the armed ******* patrolling the neighborhood deciding who is suspicious and who isn't. I don't give a **** if you are part of the crimewatch, a worthwhile individual (whatever the **** that means) and have the best intentions in the world, it is a nightmare waiting to happen when citizens start pretending they are law enforcement. The next thing you know those dang black people will be wanting to patrol neighborhoods armed to the teeth and then they will be shooting all of the innocent white folks because, hey, those people are prone to violence, you know.

 

:thumbup:

 

Black guys shooting unarmed white guys...never happen...and if it did there would certainly be an = media and national uproar...right? Almost two weeks ago:

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/new...-victim-was-holding-leash-not-weapon-4-4-2012

...crickets chirping...

 

Well, that certainly makes ALL black guys guilty of wanting to shoot white people. Just like white guys dragging a black guy behind their truck makes ALL white guys guilty of wanting to drag black guys behind trucks.

...squish...

 

Innocent or guilty?

http://www.loop21.com/life/john-mcneil-georgia-black-george-zimmerman

 

I worked in an inner city ministry for a while and one thing that amazed me was that there were actually black kids (more so with girls, who I found way more prone to violent behavior) who were prejudice against other black kids for being darker than they were. Where do they learn that?

As far as the black on black, I am taking a WAG here, that it has far more to do with one's socioeconomic standing than with color. It is true that negative socioeconomic issues are much more prevalent in our black communities. What is the source of that?

 

There is no sides, just right and wrong.

 

My point with that story wasn't really about blacks, whites, yellows, reds, whatever. It was merely that the Trayvon Martin case should have never handled in the media the way it was. It certainly wasn't handled in the same way the linked story seems to be. It's not ok to treat people differently based on race but if the media is involved any story that can be racially charged will be regardless of the facts or circumstances. Race baiting equals, clicks, sales, and money. Who cares if it fuels the seemingly always strained race relations in our nation? It's a joke and there are many people with their own self serving agendas that always show up to fan the flames.

 

Based on the descriptin of the encounter in the article I would tend to think shooting a charging person on your own property would be self defense or innocent, to answer your question. But not having seen any of the evidence from the trial I don't really know. This part seems a little confusing:

"McNeil called 911 on his way back home to check things out. When he got there he saw Epp next door. He walked up on Epp, gun in hand and fired a warning shot telling him to back off and leave. Epp charged at him, reaching for his pocket. McNeil, who is still on his own property, shot Epp in the chest killing him. It was later found out that Epps was going for the knife in his pocket."

If he approached Epps in his neighbors yard how did he shoot him on his property? And does confronting someone who at the time of the actual confrontation is unarmed and not on your property then firing a "warning" shot by them take the "stand Your Ground Law" out of play? Seems different.

 

I had read a different article but that is the one that came up when I did a search to post the link here. In the article I read McNeil pulled up in his driveway and saw Epps in another driveway get soemthing out of his truck and put it in his pocket. The the article said Epps started to approach McNeil while McNeil was on his property. That was when the warning shot was fired into the ground and Epps subsequently charged McNeil and was shot. I would guess that it is a miswrite in this article but I don't really know. You could do a search on their names and probably find better descriptions of what happened if you are interested.