Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman ....

But how do you know they weren't just trying to put a newer, nicer stereo in your car??? :D

But Trayvon was inside the GATED COMMUNITY that George lived in, and was wandering around "suspiciously" in the rain at night.... Most people don't wander around in the rain during the day, let alone at night... That doesn't send of a couple red flags to you??? Lets keep in mind the "kid" is 6'2" or 6'3" tall also, so he's not a SMALL person, most would see someone of that stature and think ADULT vs. child also....

 

Really you know this in bold? None of us know how he was walking.
Seems like speculation is Ok for your side of the argument.

You can bend this situation as much as you want and twist the facts the way you want. I have already listed the facts serveral times on why I feel Zimmerman needs to be held responsible for his actons. I listed the fact we know.

He saw what he percieved as a suspicious person
He called 911 to report it and was told not to follow him
He did follow him and got out of his car to confront him.

For those above actions he needs to be held responsible, the rest no one knows and IMO we won't know.

 

So if you have a picture of Zimmerman with a broken nose, and see the cuts on the back of his head, you still don't see where he acted in self-defense??? I think too many people in our society turn a blind-eye to what's going on right under their noses, and his actions are warranted, because it's HIS neighborhood, and like Mr. Rodgers used to sing... "Who are the people in your neighborhood...." If Martin had robbed someone's house that night, and raped someone's daughter, because Zimmerman just minded his own business, then people would be saying he should've done more. Not saying that was what he was up to or not, because we don't know. But that's the point, he was just doing his job as a "good citizen," and checking out what some "suspicious" person was doing walking around in his neighborhood. Not too much unlike what many of us would do....

So what if he didn't confront Martin??? What if he was headed back to his SUV and Martin whacked him from behind???

 

Let me be clear

The dumb *** should have listen to the police, up until the point he got out of his car he was fine. Even if he followed him and stayed in his car, he was fine. Once he stepped out of his car with that gun strapped to his side, he had the potential and did put himself in a bad situation. His one line still bothers me

"I felt like one of us was going to die tonight"

Who says dumb stuff like that, one did die. A kid did with a bag of skittles and a can of tea.

There are a lot of what if's in your post that plain and simple are not relivent.

 

Relevant???? He was talking to a dispatcher, not the Police........DUH

 

and if he would have listen to the dispatcher the innocent kid would still be alive, now that's relevant....... Duh

But you got me

 

I know there are all kinds of possibilities to this story, but I think the point that Germ is stating here is spot on. Trayvon very well could have thrown the first punch and continued to fight, but what I am having trouble with, and if I am understanding what Germ is saying is...

Zimmerman should have never got out of the vehicle! He called the police because he noticed someone walking in the rain looking suspicious. (Was he looking suspicious because he was walking in the rain? Because last time I checked, people didn't melt when they walk in the rain. Was he suspicious because he had a hood on? Hmmm...to me, if you are walking in the rain, having a hood up makes sense...but that is just me.) Anyways, he was told by police not to pursue. He did anyway. Was this "suspicious" person in the act of a crime or just walking? IMO, as a neighborhood watch, he did his part by calling in the suspicious activity. The rest should have been left to the authorities who are trained to handle these types of situations. There was nobody in immeditate danger for him to get out of his vehicle with a gun. If Zimmerman wasn't trying to take matters in to his own hands and he was just going to "ask" this suspicious person what he was doing...then why didn't he leave his gun in the car? IMO, the situation was escalated the moment her stepped out of his vehicle.

I am not an expert and I don't have all the facts, but this is just my opinion.

 

Was he suspicious because of all of the robberies, burglaries, and crime in the area maybe? While I tend to agree with the non confrontation side it still doesn't make following a "suspicious" individual a crime. Considering the history of the area and the fact he was some kind of neighborhood watch guy it doesn't seem that odd to me, maybe not smart but not a crime. He was supposed to meet the police when they got to the area so maybe he followed to give them the persons last location. If the ensuing confrontation was initiated by Trayvon and then led to a struggle involving the gun it became life or death, i'm not saying it happened that way but can it be ruled out? If you see someone "suspiciuos" in a high crime area why exactly would you want to disarm yourself?

 

You are right, if there is suspicious activity, then by all means call and report it. I would do the same and have. Here is my question...Did the struggle happen inside the vehicle? If Zimmerman felt the need to keep an eye on this guy to show the police his last known area...then do just that. FOLLOW HIM IN HIS VEHICLE. Exactly what you said, if this is a high crime area and there is a suspicious person and you don't feel safe getting out of your car without a gun...then common sense would be...DON'T GET OUT OF YOUR VEHICLE! That is why I believe, and again this is just my opinion, that Zimmerman was looking for more than to just "ask" this guy a question.

 

He saw what he percieved as a suspicious person
He called 911 to report it and was told not to follow him
He did follow him and got out of his car to confront him.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/trayvon-martin-case-exposes-worst-media-210020839.html

 

I keep hearing "he was told by 911 not to follow him" as some sort of strong point being used in this story. Well ..... who cares? Who is 911? Some lady sitting on the other end of the phone with her opinion on what to do or following a book of proper protocol in front of her? People act like he broke the law or committed a sin by not doing what a 911 dispatcher said to do. Maybe it's just me, but I find that pretty irrelevant. Maybe he did follow him by car as far as he could, then had to get out to keep watching him.

I really have no idea or really don't care. I havent' followed this case because I could really care less about wasting much time following it. But it's tough to avoid. I dont' know all the facts or storylines. This 911 thing has stuck out in my head though. I don't think it has any bearing on anything.

 

The fact is we weren't there and while we might think or know we would have acted differently that doesn't mean the way he responded was criminal. Maybe he was an overzealous neighborhood watch guy but based on everything I've read I don't believe he was out looking for a random person to shoot that night. jmo I'm sure we'll get more info sometime soon whenever the investigations are through.

 

His actions were irresponsible ... those actions led to the death of a teen ... something should be done about that ... if it takes changing the law, then lets change it ...

 

We don't know all of his actions nor all of the teens actions but one thing we know is that kneejerk reactions are always the best ones....right? What law do you want changed and how T?



Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Einstein



It's official, i'm nuts.

 

I guess some sort of vigilante law stating that the POLICE are the only ones allowed to pursue a black ma...... er, suspicious character ...

 

Let's consider this, but if he was heading out with his gun on the ready, then he's not going to get whacked in the head a couple times for his efforts.... Maybe Zimmerman DID confront him, just asking who is is and where he's headed, and Martin lashed out and hit him??? Breaking his nose, sending him stumbling a bit, and then knocked him down and smashed his head into the curb.... Seems if Martin has no marks on him to be evidence of a struggle as the FUNERAL DIRECTOR reported, then maybe Martin threw a sucker punch, and followed it up with a curb stomping, and was shot for his efforts??? Again, we can all speculate all we want, but I'd be pretty sure if you had a dead teenager and the shooter without a scratch on him, that shooter would be sitting in a cell right now.... We really don't know anything for a fact but that the media has very poorly reported on this, and misled us to the point that a lot of people will be having crow for dinner when all the facts come out.... Martin is dead, and even IF Zimmerman shot him completely out of self-defense for fear he'd be beaten to death, his LIFE in that community is over. He's almost going to have to assume a new identity to have a life anywhere without harassment, and he may have done absolutely nothing wrong other than defend himself....

Another thought...
If Zimmerman hadn't had his gun that night, and the story played out the way he's claimed it did, how badly might Martin have beat him before he stopped??? Cuts to the head, a little curb stomping, what next??? And as I say that, I know at one point I considered beating a guy to death who'd just "sucker punched" me, and had several people not stopped me, I very likely would have... Different situation, altogether, but it brings up another side of the story altogether.... At what point when a guy is getting the snot beat out of him is he wrong to protect himself if he truly fears for his life..????

 

Is it not suspicious to follow someone in a car at night? Look at it from Trayvon POV. Let's play the what if game


What if Trayvon was nuts and got Zimmerman's gun away from him, now we have a nut with a gun and all of you my guess would be stating what a bonehead zimmerman is for confronting someone with a gun and losing it.

What if Trayon feared for his life, does he not have the right to protect himself from a man who is not a cop asking questions and carring a gun. Did he know Zimmerman was neighborhood watch? When Zimmerman was reaching for his phone, did he appear to be going for his gun to Trayvon? "Stand your ground" comes into play just as much for Trayvon that is does for Zimmerman.


We will never know, but it is why responsible gun owners DO NOT put themselves in Zimmerman's situation. Because it's just going to end badly.

It really is that simple and not hard to understand.

Trayvon saw somneone following him
He saw that person get out of a car

Past those two, lines I don't know what happen. It's clear Trayvon over reacted and he himself made a poor choice, but he's 17 year kid with a man following him.

 

From the outside looking in, it would seem that Zimmerman was on the wrong end of a one-way fight and shot Martin to "save his life," or at least preserve what he still had of it. How exactly he got into that position really is null and void, the real point is that if he was getting the snot kicked out of him, and pulled his gun and shot Martin, he's still legally okay under the "Right to Self-Preservation" where citizens can use the appropriate force, up to and including LETHAL FORCE to protect themselves.

The outcry from the liberal side of things has only served to distort the facts, and muddy the waters all that much further, to a point where now George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin are common names around houses that are up on current events, and where it ends is that Zimmerman has already been tried and convicted in the court of naivete public opinion, and it's mainly because the media has falsely portrayed both he and Martin.

The use of a Mugshot for Zimmerman, while the use of a photo of Martin from several years ago, automatically makes many people have a kneejerk reaction, editting the 9-11 call so that it sounds like Zimmerman is saying "He looks black," when in reality, he was answering the question from the dispatcher to whether the suspicious person was Black, White, or Hispanic.... You have the same people crying RACIST, putting out t-shirts that have Zimmerman's Mugshot on them and the words Punk Azz Cracker.... Well, ain't the the black/African-American/Colored/Negro/(whatever he chooses to be called) calling the Hispanic "White???"

 

Germ if after 23 pages this is your response I don't know what else to say. Zimmerman was on foot for at least some of his phone call with 911. Reaching for his phone...a gun...Trayvon nuts...what are you talking about? Why do you keep saying 17 year old "kid"? Can you tell the difference between a 17 year old and a 19 year old? Is a 19 year old still a "kid"? How old is Zimmerman? What difference does it make? A 17 year old certainly isn't a child, I have one and he's the smartest guy he knows. The what if game is pointless just like all of the mind numbing speculation in this thread. Trayvon over reacted? How do you know?

Being an irresponsible gun owner or putting ones self in a "bad situation" isn't necessarily against the law as has been pointed out numerous times. I'm not saying it's smart but whatever. Living in an area like Sanford probably isn't too smart for a gunowner either because it's more than likely you're gonna have to use it someday, or at least draw it....I mean unless you are super adept at avoiding any and every situation where something could go wrong(like taking your trash out, walking to the store, leaving your car unlocked, walking your dog...you know pretty much every possible activity most of us do with little to no fear of becoming a crime statistic)

Maybe we can just agree that he will A. be cleared or B. be charged. Either way we will hopefully get some more clarification on exactly what happened that night. I'm starting to think you might just be messing with me