Trayvon Martin vs. George Zimmerman ....

This is from the Tampa Bay Times

This is from the Tampa Bay Times.

This is a lengthy article with a of of information that would suggest Trayvon is not a victim. Kudos for the story Chazspot. It does shed more light on the incident. It's still too early to draw a final conclusion but this story does seem to suggest a few temporary assumptions so far.

1. Zimmerman lost Martin and was walking back to his vehicle.

2. Martin approached Zimmerman and asked/challenged him with "you got a problem?" which is tough guy language for wanting to start a fight. Anybody not understanding this should just watch confrontational interactions at your local nightclub/bar or wherever else people get in fights.

3. Zimmerman said no and reached for a cell phone. Most people would guess he might be trying to call the police.

4. Martin said something like "well you do now," punched Zimmerman once and knocked Zimmerman to the ground. Not a shooting situation yet but definitely a cause for Zimmerman to fear for his safety.

5. Martin got on top of Zimmerman and began "slamming his head into the sidewalk" which could have seriously injured or killed Zimmerman. Zimmerman was yelling for help and the assault continued. At this point, a person could reasonably conclude that they are very likely to get seriously injured or possibly killed. Most rational people would conclude that this is a point where it becomes a shooting situation due to a serious need to defend oneself from a life threatening assault.

6. An independent witness (didn't appear to know either Martin or Zimmerman) saw Zimmerman on the ground, Martin on top of Zimmerman and Martin "pounding him." The witness was "unequivocal" that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.

7. Zimmerman shot Martin once in the chest at "close range."

8. When Police arrived, they found Martin shot and presumably dead by then. Police found Zimmerman was "bleeding from the nose, had a swollen lip and had bloody cuts on the back of his head."

These injuries would be consistent with the above described altercation/assault and would tend to corroborate the account that Zimmerman and witnesses gave police.

9. Several witnesses heard cries (for help). Attorneys for Martin's family say Martin was the one yelling, but police say their evidence indicates it was Zimmerman.

10. The above information definitely indicates quite a bit of police investigation occurred and suggests that Martin may well have been the instigator of a lawful shooting. Police may have made some mistakes but this newspaper account suggests that they have done quite a bit of good investigation and aren't simply sweeping something under the carpet.

Nothing in this information would give the police a legal right to simply arrest Zimmerman as this evidence suggests Zimmerman did act in self defense. These investigations do take more than just a day or 2 and it sounds like the police are working through all of the evidence that they have.

11. And last, but certainly not least, nothing in this account would give anybody a reason to riot, incite a riot or assault somebody else. That is simply more criminal acts for which the perpetrators should be arrested and prosecuted.

(The guy who posted this on another forum is a cop in California.)

 

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Have you ever been in a fight? Usually its the one getting pummeled that shows the injuries, not the one doing the pummeling. lol

A coroners report on a case where the cause of death is admitted by the killer and obvious is about as useful as a flashlight in a room with the lights on.

 

Daddy's Litter Girl

If Zimmerman Shot martin at close range you will get Blow back from the impact of the bullet entering Trayvon and exploding out on Zimmerman. Consider a deer being hit by an arrow or bullet.



Firearms examiners are frequently called on to estimate the range from which a gunshot was fired. The distribution of gunshot residue on the target surface can be used for this determination. Gunshot residue consists of the following materials: (l)unburned propellant particles; (2)partially burned propellant particles; (3)soot from the combustion of propellant; (4)nitrates and nitrites from combustion of propellant; (5)particles of primer residue (oxides of lead, antimony and barium); and (6) particles of bullet or bullet jacket. The following terminology is frequently used to characterize ranges of fire based on the deposition of gunshot residue:
• Distant shot: the shot was fired from such a distance that no gunshot residue reached the target surface. Distant gunshot wounds are circular or elliptical defects surrounded by a marginal abrasion or contusion ring caused by the bullet stretching and tearing the skin. The contusion ring is frequently obscured by a gray ring of bullet ‘wipe’, consisting of lubricant and gunpowder combustion products. Distant bullet holes in clothing, walls and the like will lack the contusion ring but will usually show a ring of bullet ‘wipe’. An elemental analysis of the residue surrounding the hole may be required to determine whether a hole in an item of clothing, a door or a wall is in fact a bullet hole.
• Close-range shot: the shot was fired close enough to the target surface for some gunshot residue to reach it. For handguns close range typically means within 12-18 inches (30-45 cm). However, this is very much dependent on the type of ammunition being fired and the condition of the weapon. For rifles and shotguns close range typically means within several feet. The gunshot residue deposited on the target surface consists primarily of unburned propellant particles, partially burned propellant particles and soot. The unburned and partially burned propellant particles produce what is called ‘stippling’ or ‘tattooing’. The heated particles may be fused to the surface of the target. The particles may be driven into exposed skin (hence the name ‘tattooing’). As the distance between the gun muzzle and the target surface decreases the gunshot residue pattern becomes smaller and more concentrated, with increasing amounts of stippling and soot deposition. Gunshot residue patterns display a variety of patterns, such as irregular, circular or petal.
• Near-contact shot: the shot was fired at a range of 1 in (2.5 cm) or less. At this range, there will be a concentrated gunshot residue pattern. The muzzle flash (the incandescent gases issuing from the muzzle) will also interact with the target surface. Hair will be singed. Textile fibers may be singed or even melted and the textile structure will be disrupted. Woven textiles will split apart in an X-shaped pattern; knitted textiles will show a large circular or elliptical hole.

 

We hunt we've killed deer. At the area of point of impact of were our arrows or bullet hit a deer depend were you've hit the deer you mean to tell me the area isn't covered with blood or show sides of blood on the surrounding vegetation from the initial impact?

Could we not say there is going to be some sort of Blood splattering within the area. Some of the comments would seem to think that even a human and deer is totally is different, but that if a bullet or arrow hit a human being in the chest that the person won't bleed out.

Think about it?

If Zimmerman hit Trayvon in the Central Pump Station of his body being his chest. And they are in a fight for their life and both hearts are pumping a mile a minute. That his Central Nervous system isn't going to expel a large volume of blood just like a deer would?

In defense of Zimmerman I would say when I worked in a hospital as tech. One particular gunshot victim was brought in from a .45 we spoke and he said he was shot in the side. He even made jokes about being shot and it didn't hurt much. But there were No apparent blood seepage. Once he was in the OR Room table and they made a small incision.

MY GOD! He didn't make it.

 

The problem is you aren't thinking about it. You think you know the circumstances of the shot or anything for that matter and you don't. You have the same, media delivered "evidence" as everyone else. You post links that are even more useless serving only to suck up bandwidth. Yeah I hunt, I kill deer but I'm still smart enough to know that doesn't make me a forensic scientist, ballistic expert, or anything other than a deer hunter.

I'll say it again, there has been NO release of the coroners report. A funeral home director is not the police coroner EVEN if he were to be a hunter and watch too many videos on youtube...still not a coroner.

 

Dude if you ever need a reference for a role on CSI just let me know, I'll give a glowing report.

You chose the wrong profession for sure.

 

Cop from CA, good.

There is no witness yet that could tell who was on who. We simple do not know and never will. To me it simple does not matter. A person who carries a gun has a greater responsibility than those who don't. The second Zimmerman step out of his car to confront the kid he neglected his reponsibilty as a gun owner. Without that gun strapped to his side Zimmeran does not approach the kid. The right of a CCW is for your protection and your family. It's not a permit to play neighborhood cop.

Reports have changed from what Zimmerman's father and friend have said publicly.

As gun owners we have responsibilities to the public to be responsible with our right, Zimmerman when he decided to confront a kid broke that trust, he was not protecting himself, he was putting himself and my rights as a gun owner online. He did so, and every responsible gun owner should be outraged by his actions. I am not shocked most are not.

 

Yawn...man Hooker and Vito were smart to leave this one. Germ we don't know who did the confronting and you don't live in an area with one of the highest crime rates in the nation so how can you judge what he or any other gun owner or citizen in that enviornment should or should not do.

Outraged by his actions? Maybe I would be if I knew all of them from that night and maybe I will be if the investigation brings to light actions and evidence strong enough to charge and prove he was guilty of something. Fact is, I am not outraged and actually I'm shocked that some are.......considering they know squadoosh.

 

Yawn

Was he protecting his home or property? Yes or no.
Do you think he gets out of his car without that gun?

We know he followed the kid and got out the car to confront him, at that point he put himself in a bad situation. He needs to be held responsible for those actions.

I lived in Detroit for a year when I was a kid, so I know what it is like. Our neighbor and my great grandfather house were broken into when I was there.

 

Absolutely.

 

In order to conduct a range-of-fire determination the firearms examiner requires certain pieces of evidence or information.

He should have the original gunshot residue pattern, the weapon believed to have fired the pattern, ammunition from the same lot as that used to fire the original gunshot residue pattern and knowledge of the weather conditions prevailing at the time of the shooting. In the case of a gunshot residue pattern on skin a scaled black and white or color photograph of the pattern is usually used for comparison purposes. However, black and white photographs may be misleading as some of the discoloration of the skin in a powder pattern is the result of a vital reaction of the skin to the impact of hot propellant grains. Even a color photograph may be misleading. Skin blemishes may be mistaken for stippling or tattooing. Ideally, the firearms examiner should be present at the autopsy of a shooting victim so that he can examine the gunshot residue pattern himself. Older homicide investigation texts frequently recommended excising the skin bearing gunshot residue patterns at autopsy and sewing the formalin-fixed tissue to a metal hoop. The advisability of this practice is open to question: the formalin-fixed tissue will shrink to some degree; the evidence may be deemed by a judge too inflammatory to be admitted at trial; and members of some religions would regard the excision of the powder pattern as an unconscionable mutilation of the dead.

Gunshot residue patterns on clothing may not be readily visible, particularly if they are on a dark fabric or obscured by blood.

In such a case several techniques can be used to visualize the gunshot residue pattern. In the case of patterns obscured by blood, infrared photography can render the pattern visible; blood is virtually transparent to infrared radiation, whereas soot is a strong infrared absorber. Infrared imaging devices have also been successfully used to visualize gunshot residue patterns. Chemical tests may also be used to visualize a gunshot residue pattern on a dark-colored garment or one that is bloodstain

If the police did not keep Zimmerman or Trayvon's clothing none of the following can be accurately conducted. And since the police have already admitted to not keeping Zimmerman's weapon. This case is progressing yet for the prosecution it's falling apart. Even if convicted He will possibly serve about 2-5 yrs. that's if he's ever convicted of anything.

 

Ever followed a blood trail to a dead deer?

Scientist get their basic knowledge of events from people in the field. Come on man think! Vito made a good relative comment about the grassy knoll.

Your problem is you are basing your thoughts and ideals on TV show shootings. When you've viewed the aftermath of a real shooting military, hospital, or just out enjoying yourself when all hell break loose. People on the scene will tell you theirs just blood everywhere.

Where did the blood disappear in this shooting? Basic question where is the blood? Why do one person have it made up in his mind that only these *** holes are always getting away? Basic questions when you finally answer the basic you'll have your answer.

Let's just face it. There's some would say he's innocent based or their view of statement he's said. But when you listen to his statement, the 13 yr old kid walking the dog, the 911 call of the woman telling her husband to come up stairs.

The 2 female eye witnesses the police video lack of clear visible injuries. If he was covered in blood the police would have worn protective gloves to prevent blood contamination to themselves. So they so sure they aren't going to contract anything from Zimmerman's blood broken nose and bashed in head on the sidewalk? Where Trayvon is hammering his head against. Really!??

You mean to say you will shoot someone at almost point blank range you're not going get splattered with blood?

None of this adds up.

The only thing that's clear is the 911 dispatch told him no to follow him and within 4-5 minutes Trayvon's Dead.

Zimmerman don't have to make another comment. Everything else is going against what he said. And the Sanford Police messed this up.

A person with a view from the outside looking in has said some of the basic things and from his personal view he belongs in jail. He said that's just his opinion.

When I was forced to kill a dog that attacked my nephew the gun and my hand, shirt and face was covered in blood. Next time you're near some mud throw a rock in and drop one into it. tell if you don't get some on you a simple experiment.


I'm done with this.

 

I'm just glad we have this forensic scientist among our ranks on this board, it truly is humbling...

 

Well I see you've got this all figured out...and for those that don't moonlight as ballistic expert crime investigating rubber glove wearing mud/rock splatter experts....that was sarcasm. But it didn't really take a detective to figure that out

 

Hmmmmmmm you may have a point. Maybe OJ sniped him from across the street? Maybe he wasnt' really shot or killed and this is just all for TV? The tyvek suit.... YES! Zimmerman must have been wearing protective clothing and plotted this whole thing. Check the dumpsters!

Really? What is the point of any of this?

p.s. I've killed a lot of deer that had next to no blood trail and deader than dead within 100 yards.

 

The story keeps getting holes in it. I always found it weird the guy with the gun screamed for help.

http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-w...perts-say-its-not-george-zimmerman?source=rss

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/0...tin-shooter-george-zimmerman/?test=latestnews

 

Very interesting ... and not shocking ...

 

When reports use such bias as shown above it makes my skin crawl. Why not just go ahead and use toddler pictures of the kid?