I will also state the weapon of choice, location and type of deer you are hunting dictates tremendously how much scent control will up your odds. If I'm gun hunting I am not quite as anal, plain and simply my killing range is increased....if I'm hunting urban deer in woodlines that run between subdivsions...I may not be as anal...however I've grown to default to staying as crazy in scent control as possible because I'd rather have it be a non-factor in my harvest than a factor in not harvesting.
You got lucky... Twice. You and I both know that 9 times out of 10 that mature buck that comes in downwind of you is gone as soon as he notices a smell he doesn't recognize. If he's not gone, he will be extremely weary. Correct... To a point... People who play the wind and take additional scent elimination tactics do take scent reduction seriously. I get what you two are saying, but I just don't like the fact that hunters are now getting in the mindset that they need to spend hundreds, if not thousands of dollars in order to stay "scent free", and then feel they can ignore the wind and be fine.
Bottom line is too many guys chasing mature bucks are counting on those same mature bucks to make a mistake and present a shot by tailwinding into their set up.....totally contradicting how that deer has lived as long as he has most likely....especially in pressured situations. Do I always blow directly towards where I expect movement...absolutely not...but I also don't waste my time hunting a stand with the wind blowing in my face from expected movement *asking the deer to tailwind and sacrifice their greatest survival tool....unless their is a terrain trap as I call them that forces the deer to go against sound survival instincts and tailwind. Rut crazed bucks will be stupid...but in order to hunt and kill maturer bucks in more pressured areas you cannot expect a deer to tailwind...I've seen this happen rarely and it had 1 of 3 reasons EVERY time. #1 - another hunter or human intrusion caused them to bust cover/bedding and simply were fleeing danger with disregard to safety ahead...only escaping danger behind (even in these cases often times they would swing wide and circle into the wind slipping the danger yet utilizing the wind eventually.) #2 - A terrain trap like a cliff, steep hillside or structures (houses/buildings) cause them to wrap around them and briefly sacrifice their nose and solely rely on ears and eyes. #3 - Rut crazed junkie tracking a doe. One of the reasons I hunt high, take extreme scent precautions and track buck movement due to (weather, pressure, pre-dawn and post dawn winds and other factors) is so I can use everything against their survival instincts and a lot of the times that means blowing quartering to them just enough so their nose thinks it is safe but by the time they "may" catch wind of me it is too late. Last year my buck came directly in from down wind of me....I was about 28 feet up the tree and my scent stream was blowing well over his head as he approached as I thought he might given all the circumstances....if I'd been hunting low, or not using extreme scent controls in my approach, clothing prep and stand time I have no doubt I don't get him. The key isn't to think I can conquer a deer's nose so screw the wind...the key is realizing that the wind is another tool that hunters must learn to utilize better than a mature buck does (and it is their greatest survival tool)...
Great explanation. I think most tips on how to be scent free have been covered in this thread. To be as scent free as you possible can: Shower with scent free soap Scent free deodorant Spray down, and spray down again (don't forget to spray your wrist sling and release) Use the wind to your advantage whenever possible Wash clothes in scent free detergent and store in air tight container Don't open that container and get dressed until you have arrived to the property I missed a lot... But you get the idea.
I posted this before but... You know what made me give up being super anal about scent control? I was decked out in the latest greatest carbon suit, I had washed in scent free soap, my clothes were washed in scent free and hung outside to dry and stored in a tote, outside. I had rubber boots that were deer hunting only and kept outside and regularly cleaned. All my gear was sprayed down with odor eliminating spray. I left the house one morning and walked to my stand. 30 minutes later my wife let the dog out and she(my dog not my wife) was under my tree in a matter of minutes. I figured if I couldn't beat the nose of a dog, that doesn't depend on it for survival, no way I could beat the nose of a deer. Scent free soap has a smell, odor killing spray has a smell. If I can smell it I know a deer can. I'll admit I still use it because its just what you do if you're going deer hunting but I have little faith in it....and I just don't want to go deer hunting smelling like old spice and head and shoulders. Last year, with my scent eliminating routine of wash clothes in a home made "scent free" soap, deo etc and my clothes stored outside, I had just as many deer come in down wind and not smell me as I ever did before going all out with odor elemination. And I was busted just as much as before. Bottom line, at least in my opinion, is sometimes they smell you and sometimes they don't.
Some good replies here, I'm one of the "play the wind" guys though, so stop reading if your a cool-aid drinker. Bottom line, humans stink. To deer. Deer have a better nose then a bloodhound and a bloodhound can smell human scent that is suspended in a tank full of gas. Just think about that for a moment your contemplating a "cover scent". The moment you step out of the shower your human scent starts to come out. Everything you touch leaves some of it, at the same time, whatever you touch can transfer scent to you. For the people who "change in the field", your underwear contains the most human scent of any garment. Better change them too, but make sure your have rubber gloves on when you touch any outer garments, release, arrows, bow, pull up rope, calls, tree stand steps...ect. The one thing I will say is this...If you "think" it's helping...it is. There's a huge mental aspect to hunting. But if you think that deer that's downwind can't smell you...your wrong. He just chooses not to flee for whatever reason a deer does.
Agree with a lot of that Siman for sure...and the funny thing is some of the reasons you list as to why you are a "play the wind" guy are the exact reasons I strive to minimize scent at every turn
Nose Jammer works on ground scent. Ozonic's works on Air-born; don't worry about my clothes or body much; and it is a waste to spray or try to cover any human up - won't work.
Certain instances make deer harder to kill, reguardless of how anal your scent control regiment is. Hunting trail intersections for example...deer could come from any direction. Yes, the trail cameras might show it's a hot spot...but more then likely your going to have a deer cross your wind. Food sources are easier. If a deer gets comfortable coming into a food source day after day...then it's simple to wait for the proper wind and set up an ambush. I think it's more important to look at the situation as a whole (wind direction, thermals, temps, entry route, time of day, time of year, intended target, ect)...then it is to be one of those guys that kills all his scent and climbs up in a tree by a hotspot and hopes for the best.
I wonder how many "play the wind guys" (who anticipate the deer traveling with the wind) also use scents like doe pee (anticipating the deer traveling against the wind)? Funny, I got lucky twice. Fact is before I adopted a scent reduction plan, I got busted all the time, I'd just be sitting there in the stand and suddenly hear a snort from downwind and a deer running away. Since adopting a plan, I've "gotten lucky" dozens and dozens of times with deer coming in downwind and not busting me. I've been busted once in the past 5 years. True, the deer is wary b/c he/she smells something, but the proof is in the freezer and it isn't a result of luck. I guess by "luck" you mean the deer had allergies that day and couldn't smell? Did the deer have CWD or some other lucky disease? Please define "luck" in relation to killing a deer that smells you dead downwind at 20 yards and doesn't run?
Great points..the one I bolded though I will elaborate a touch on. Like stated prior though, unless one of the three things occur I seriously have yet to see a truly mature pressured buck tailwind into a food source...at minimum their entrance may appear as such but they already circle scent checked it within the wood line. Your last paragraph dude is SPOT ON! Scent control to me is just another aspect of which I attempt to get the absolute most out of my time spent in the woods. Just like all the scouting and studying the mature bucks I attempt to harvest. In order to not rely on a mature buck slipping up I have to utilize everything and minimize my chance of detection with my scouting telling me where to hunt, how to enter/exit, what wind/weather/other conditions cause certain approaches....and for me scent minimizing procedures...which some say I know feel are pointless.
Trust me John isn't arguing and I am sure Siman knows this...this is honestly a great discussion and dare I say what the board needs more of. Hunters discussing tactics and approaches....disagreeing is simply part of it and those that realize it allow awesome convos to occur. I think I am feeling the same as John....I keep hearing guys say "Ty, you got lucky..." or "That deer just messed up..." I guess John is wondering how many times does a hunter have to get "lucky" that hunts with extreme scent control before some credit is shifted towards the idea or concept that it must help some.
I setup for buck using a tail wind and I see them traveling in this manner more often than not. They can see everything in front of them and smell everything behind. They especially do this if feeding solo. I disagree with the assessment that mature bucks seldom travel with a tail wind.
My apologies - I edited my post from "why" he is arguing, to "what" he is arguing. I guess I don't understand what he is trying to discuss or the point he is trying to get across? Is he saying that his scent reduction plan is better than playing the wind?
If eluded towards my statements I did explain they do but when they do it is almost always due to a reason sometimes not always easily visible or spotted by the hunter. We have a food plot at our property that the deer almost always 90%+ of the time enter from the same spot...it appears a lot of time that they are tailwinding into it...not a big deal for the younger deer but it is for the older more mature. However, this is caused by the large hill located directly beside the plot which most of the deer do not want to climb up and over (it is over 75 feet tall and some portions very steep). It causes them to wrap around it and walk with the wind relying on eyes or ears to detect all danger.... Any spot or terrain trap created by either topographical or bedding to food type set ups are the deadliest things to be utilized by hunters in my opinion. If you can hunt a mature buck that has to utilize his eyes and ears but not his nose.....that is HUGE for the hunter and often times is going to result in the chance the hunter is weighting on.
I don't think he would say it is better but he is stating over and over again he has not been busted by deer since implementing a scent reduction plan...how many times does that need to occur before it is chalked as luck by doubters of scent control?
I guess we will never really know... How many times does someone need to get busted by a deer downwind before doubters of playing the wind notice? I just keep going back to his original comment "First, don't take scent reduction technique tips from "play the wind" guys b/c they don't take scent reduction seriously and they bank on wind to consistently carry their scent in one particular direction. " That is just a silly comment to me - To me, a true scent reduction plan takes everything that he is trying to say, and factoring the wind in whenever you can as well.
Question for the guys who say they've shot a deer directly downwind using scent control. How do you know your scent stream actually reached him? I use milkweed and many times when you think a deer is downwind, the milkweed will actually float right over the top of them. So even though that deer was downwind directionally, my scent stream wasn't hitting them. And even if your scent is hitting them, other factors can come into play like the personality of that deer. Like humans, deer have different personalities and may react differently than other deer. Age is anther factor. A younger deer, say 3 years and younger, may be more "lenient" of human scent. A muture deer of 4+ will be less likely to tolerate it. Were these downwind encounters with mature animals? Like I said in an earlier post, I do basic scent control like washing clothes, showering, and spraying down, but I'm beginning to think they don't make much of a difference. I continued to do so last season primarily to minimize my ground scent, but I'm not even sure about that now. This season I'll be skipping all of it and focusing on hunting. But I do think each hunter should do whatever makes them most confident, because I think we can all agree that confidence is king.
Swamp...last year's buck was estimated either a 3 1/2 or 4 1/2 (I think just 3 1/2 personally) so mature to some not quite to others. He was directly "down wind" of the reported wind...but like I've touched on the wind shifts and changes so much one cannot simply expect the wind to be westerly if reported wind is westerly. Likewise add in two track trails, open pockets and trees to the mix and now scent streams are bumping, shifting, being sucked up or down as they flow through the woods like water in a river...which is why I worry more about scent because to me even though I have begun to see how scent streams flow more and more I also know the wind can shift on a dime, hence why I try (not saying I accomplish what I want completely) to minimize my scent as best I can. Further comment on the mature thing is that my 2010 buck I shot opening day was directly down wind walking with sound survival instincts quartering into the wind approaching our small food plots was estimated to be 7+ to over 9 years old. He was down to his last bits of teeth....so needless to say he was mature. *disclosure I could have gotten lucky sure...but I could share numerous other stories of mature deer bucks and a lot of very old and mature does being downwind. I will admit though as I won't claim to know it all that a lot of guys have tons of success with just paying attention to the wind...my issue is I have only so many days to hunt and in order to increase my odds of accomplishing my goals I want to do everything I can and honestly hunting deer movement that is going to be quartering into or against the wind is much more predictable in my studies and other trusted hunters that pursue mature bucks than hunting the wind and expecting a mature buck to tailwind (although possible).
