I'm going to go against the grain here a little bit, and you probably won't like it Steve. I'd have to side 80% with the employer on this one. Two big problems stand out.... 1. An ear infection isn't a grave illness. 2. See quote below..... I can understand her taking the day off that you had to work, but the other two?.....not so much. If I was the employer and I knew she took days off, that she didn't have, because her daughter didn't want to be with her dad, I'd be pissed too. Honestly, if I was him, I would have told her that was her problem and not his....like he did. Flame away, but she was in the wrong.
What? Why? Dude, you have to leave the emotions out of this. A previous poster got you to bring out the facts in this scenario and, like he said, its pretty cut and dried. My family employes over 650 people, so I have a little experience with this and have seen these situations more than one time..... She called in and skipped work two extra days, which she didn't have the right to take off, because your daughter was tempermental and and only wanted her mother. Seriously, that's not a vaild reason to not go to work. You were perfectly capable of taking care of her yourself, but she stayed home anyways. If one of your drivers called in and didn't work for a couple days, to make things more convenient for their significant other, would you not be upset? I sure would. They signed up and accepted the job, I would expect them to do it.....unless there was a serious emergency. Had you been working the other two days, I would be on your side here......but that's not the case. Sorry if that little bit of opinion difference makes you lose respect for me, but its a pretty black and white situation.
1st off I shouldn't of came off like I did. I apologize some what. 2nd of all my emotions can't be left out of this, this Is family and no one will tell me different. Just because your employer doesn't give you sick days means you can't be home with your child when they are real sick? Again, family comes 1st where I come from. 102.5 temp to me Is pretty sick. Not questioning you at all Dan. Big difference here though. Your always going to have people who use the system. Your family's business Is huge and I can guarantee you your family doesn't know 3/4 of their employee's. Jenny's employer has 5 people working for them, they know everyone well and know what their made of. Who has the right Dan to tell someone they cannot stay home with their sick child? The big shot employer who only looks out for themselves or the mother who knows what's going on at home? I requested Jenny to stay home with Lydia's temp rising like It was, I didn't like the situation and nor did Jenny. Minus the temp It wouldn't of been a problem in the least, Jenny would've been at work. **** no I wouldn't of been upset!! Here's the difference Dan, I know my employee's and what they are about. Lol! No matter If I'm In my truck or not I'm working 24/7 365 days a year. Since when does my job quit when I'm not driving my truck? It don't end there, not even close! Most haven't a clue what a job like mine Is about. The thing Is Dan you CANNOT compare a small time employer that knows their employee's to that of your parents business. Like I said right away In this post, I do some what apologize for saying what I said but family comes 1st with me, specially my daughter!! Family also comes 1st for my employee's. I didn't like what you said, specially when talking about the well being of my little girl and questioning me on It like It Isn't a big deal. That burned me!!! Would It bother you with your kid running a 102.5 temp with It rising? She felt like she was burning up, I felt so damn bad for her.
Steve: The reason I asked to leave emotion out of this.....you HAVE to, if you're going to look at this situation, objectively. Subjectively, I agree with you (i.e. emotionally). Objectively.....she's in a pickle. Here's the facts: She gets 1 wk. vacation. She gets NO sick days; personal days; etc... She has a toddler daughter. Let me ask you this..... If you have a toddler daughter....what do you think the chances are (percentage-wise) that she's going to be sick enough to require you (your girlfriend) to be home with her..........or...miss work? I'd say they're close to 100%. So....how many days do you think that'll encompass? Now look at it like a ledger. If you take days off......where do you take them from? The way I see it, she gets 5 days off a year (+ holidays). Unless you can time it to where your daughter is sick only on holidays.......where do you post the days off on that imaginary (or not so) ledger? Let's use another example....ME (hypothetically). Let's say I get 2 weeks off (vacation). I also get 1 week "sick pay". I also get 5 "personal" days. I use 1 wks vacation to take my wife to Mexico for a week....and another to go to IL deer hunting. In April, I get the flu and take all 5 sick days, recovering. I take an additional 5 personal days and use them for a NM elk hunt in Oct. Come December, I get the flu, again.....and miss 3 additional days of work. WHERE do I post these? You think my employer would assess this as "poor planning"?
I can empathize with the situation. But the boss being the boss has every right to do what he did/said. Like others have said, the situation is cut and dry. I work for the state and if i decided to take leave (non emergency) that i didnt have, I would be suspended or fired. Being a smaller company (i'm not sure if he's the boss or owner) he could probably brush this off but he's going strictly by the book. I hope everything works out.
I can see both sides here and emotion can definitely make the issue hard to see. First of all she works for a small company and is the lifeline of their business with nobody to cover here when she is out. From a business perspective she needs to be there for the company to run smoothly, if not it is hell for everyone. Second of all it is hard when you have a family and are told your job is in jeopardy when taking care of them and not making it to work. Being a small company she wouldn't qualify for FMLA if she could qualify for medical reasons to take off when the child is sick. I am not sure what the demographic is where you are at but it might be time for her to start looking for another job in her spare time Where are you at in Minnesota Steve? Any company with over 50 employees must provide FMLA coverage by law as long as the employee has worked 1250 calender hours in a year. If she can find a larger company there would likely be transparency as well to cover her if she is out. I have employees *****ing all the time about our attendance policy, and here is how good they have it. 5 paid sick days, if they exceed 49 hours they get put on a verbal warning. 4 ESN days (emergency short notice) which can be used with vacation or personal time when same day vacation is not available and sick time is exhausted. 7 personal days per year 1 week vacation for the first year and 2 weeks in the second year. 3 weeks at 5 years and 4 weeks at 10 years. Full FMLA and STD benefits through MetLife, if out for say a pregnancy they are covered with pay through STD and FMLA covers attendance. Sadly the company doesn't understand the value of family even though they are small. It sounds like they need her more than she needs them, hope it all works out.
First off, it is BS that a company does not offer it's employees sick leave. That right there would cause me to dissuade my loved ones from working for that business. I work around many people that abuse leave. For the people that really do abuse leave, they need to be dealt with immediately. Secondly, those employees that work their butts off yet have to use unexpected leave to care for their sick children...that is life and so what. Support them through their ordeals and they will more than support you when it is time. A child with a 102.5 temperature and rising is a problem. Also, it is also something to consider when a sick child only wants to be around his or her mother. I know when my wife was breastfeeding our children, that when they become ill, just being around their mother sped their recoveries, and increased their happiness. A young child with a rising temp and puking can become dehydrated in less than 4-6 hours, so yes it is a serious sickness for a youngster. I am a stickler for the rules when it comes to people trying to play the system, but a mother staying home with her daughter is no such case. If you want to get technical about it, Steve's girlfriend could be a single mom...what are her options at that point if she has noone to care for her child? You are going to fire a valuable emplyee who happens to be a single mom bc she does not have a back up plan? Does a single mother just not seek employment if they don't have a back up plan? I know a good deal of people whose single mothers would have been out of a job if they were placed in the same situation as Steve's girlfriend. So she doesn't have leave, so guess what....you don't pay her for those days. Goodness gracious, she only took 3 sick days the entire year, or one sick day every 4 months. I BET the average american takes off at least double that each year. And she took off 3 days for her young daughter having the flu. And for goodness sake, she only gets 5 personal leave days a year. So she has been out a total of 14 days this year, or has taken less than 3 weeks leave. And 9 of those have been sick days for herself and her young child. It is not like she is off in Vegas playing poker. Racewayking--Sadly the dips at my work don't get it either. They GET 100 hours of sick leave each year---paid! They start out with 2.5 weeks of paid vacation each year. And they STILL abuse the system. I already have over 300 hours of sick leave built up over 4 years and I took 80 hours for the birth of my child last year.
I know exactly what you're talking about VS. We get 100+ hrs paid sick leave a year that you can carry over and save up to 300days. I work with people who have 10+ yrs of service and have no sick time. As soon as they earn a day, they magically get sick.
Let's use your example, and leave Steve's girlfriend out of it (to keep it objective). What are her options? Let's see.....she knows she has no sick time. She knows she has a toddler. She pretty much knows she will (the toddler) get sick at some point throughout the year. She also knows she has days that she CAN take off....................with NO repercussions. Choice time. Remember....stay objective.
Dan you are an evil man and know nothing about people or running a business, just wait till you have a business and a family and then you will change your attitude.
I really do understand what your saying here Jeff (I really do) but were talking about 2.5 year old kid here with a temp rising like a SOB, not an adult. Sorry, my kid comes 1st!! I don't like to take chances with high temps, they scare the hell out of me. If anyone wants to blame anyone for this blame me, I'm the one that told Jenny that she's staying home. For crying out loud people no one plans this stuff. Kids get sick, who the hell knows when It's going to happen. Do you really believe Jenny herself wanted to miss work? Come on, no one can afford to take time off when they don't get any sick pay. Times are tough here too but I'll say It again my kid comes 1st. Really sounds like empathizing. No one will ever tell me that there business Is more Important then 1 to 3 days of me or my g/f staying home with our child with the condition she was In over Christmas, no one! I worked for the government for 5 years (county highway dept) and I know for a fact It wouldn't of been a problem In the least If I was In this situation. A decent boss will work with their hard working/trusting employee's, my old boss was decent. Thanks for understanding some and seeing where I'm coming from. Believe me raceway, she's looking for another job. This pissed us both off. I wish things were a little better here financially so she could tell her employer to get ******!!! Brett and Raceway- You both are absolutely right. Everyone abuses the system and the good people of this world pay for It, It really sucks but It Is what It Is. What's a person do? Honesty and hard work used to carry you In most places at work, not so much the case anymore. Sad!! Yeah, I'm old school. Jeff, you do make some valid points here, thanks for posting. If I'm the employer here there wouldn't be an Issue though. Thanks for the replys all.
Steve: Here's the bottom line to what I'm saying (and thank you for not getting ticked off....and keep it that way!....lol). Here goes.... Was anything wrong with your daughter.....when her mother took her "vacation" days? Was "mom" sick? Emergency, elsewhere?
No, everyone was fine. All of her vacation days (5 of them) were all used In July on our family trip up to northern Mn camping and fishing. What are you getting at Jeff?
Empathizing, means that i understand why you're upset. Which i do. No doubt family comes first. Taking care of a child like she did is exactly what i would expect from a good parent. I'm just saying, whether it was right or wrong what she did was against protocol. Morally what she did was right but on paper it was wrong.
I'm saying that.....right or wrong....her employer might look at it like she made the wrong choice (going on vacation....KNOWING days like the ones in question were going to arise). Objectively....again.... He gives her 5 days to use as she sees fit. No more. There's a case to be made, here, for her to exercise prudence.
When I was a single parent my daughter contracted scarlet fever. Even if I didn't have the time I would have had to take off. I would have done what I had to do and, if my employer said something to me like hers said to her, I would not have been angry I just would have told him I understand that he needs to take care of his business but that I need to take care of my daughter and I am going to do what I need to do and he should do what he feels he needs to do. I don't understand why you would be mad at him. He has a responsibility to much more than your girlfriend and he can't let her adversely affect his business even if she has very legitimate reasons for missing work.
This is exactly what I have done/will do, always, when it comes to family. Very well put Bruce. It does rub me the wrong way when employers shrug at any health related issues concerning my family. The above statement you made erases all questions about how it affects me, to my employer.
Agree. Your kidding me? He more or less told her he didn't care and It's not his problem. When words like that are spoken about my family you ******* right I'm going to be pissed off!! Better yet, maybe her employer should get his **** together and have sick days for their employee's!! How can one use vacation days with a sick kid Jeff? 1st of all It's 100% lieing your ass off and 2nd of all when you take vacation you give a huge notice when you'd like to do so. The last time I checked vacation days are for vacation only and don't be caught trying to cheat It. I'd sure be skeptical If my employee called me one morning before work and said he's taking vacation that day. I'd say huh, what the hells going on? Jeff- He told Jenny that regardless of what she has for vacation time this year she better find a back up plan from now on being he don't offer sick leave. Jenny and I talked about It last night and she and I agreed that If the same thing happens again which we all know It will eventually that she's going to do the same thing again and stay home with our daughter If she's really sick like the last time. If she gets fired, so be It but he better be careful and have his poop In a scoop In knowing what he's doing. I honestly hope It don't go down that road.
Better yet, maybe her employer should get his **** together and have sick days for their employee's!! That's an entirely different issue. Does he have them in place, now? Did she get them when she was hired......or subsequently earn them (via tenure)? How can one use vacation days with a sick kid Jeff? 1st of all It's 100% lieing your ass off and 2nd of all when you take vacation you give a huge notice when you'd like to do so. How's it lieing? "I'm using the ONLY days you allow me to be off......when I HAVE TO". Now....IF there's a "notice" policy in place, then I guess she's over a barrel. BUT again....the rules are in writing (I presume)....and, if not, they're "known". I find it very hard to believe that he wouldn't allow her to take her 5 days in any way she deems fit. And, I find it very hard to believe he wouldn't view her choice to utilize her vacation days to stay home with her daughter (when she's sick), instead of using them for trip(s) as anything other than her acting prudently. The last time I checked vacation days are for vacation only and don't be caught trying to cheat It. I'd sure be skeptical If my employee called me one morning before work and said he's taking vacation that day. I'd say huh, what the hells going on? Would you rather they went on a trip (using them up), THEN call you the morning before work? Which one would make you feel better as an employer? Jeff- He told Jenny that regardless of what she has for vacation time this year she better find a back up plan from now on being he don't offer sick leave. Are you saying she CAN'T use her vacation days to care for her daughter.....and that she MUST go on vacation when she utilizes them? Jenny and I talked about It last night and she and I agreed that If the same thing happens again which we all know It will eventually that she's going to do the same thing again and stay home with our daughter As my wife would (stay home with a sick child)....REGARDLESS of the consequences....but not blind to them. If she's really sick like the last time. If she gets fired, so be It but he better be careful and have his poop In a scoop In knowing what he's doing. I honestly hope It don't go down that road. This is the part I (and a few others) can't get a grasp on. SHE KNOWS THE RULES.
