I somewhat disagree. Different anchor points on your face can force a draw length change in order to get into that position. Different release lengths, whether it be a wrist strap or hand held will also dictate a draw length change in order for you to get into your anchor. Now I agree, your draw length is your draw length, but you can and often do fudge that in order to accommodate new equipment.
I've been messing with blind bale shooting in the man cave over the past month and think I have things sorted. With my wrist strap, which was a Scott Rhino XT, it has a very short head and trigger inline with the hook of the release. My anchor for this was the webbing portion, between my thumb and index finger, wrapped around the back of the jaw. It was repeatable and comfortable. However, my draw length was about 1/2" short of what I actually am in order to accomodate this, with nose to string, nock aligned eye, etc. Elbow was definitely high. But, I have always shot very well this way. With the thumb button, I moved my draw length out a half inch, put a longer d loop on and slowly decreased the d loop length until I felt comfortable and was able to get the release into the right spot. Way better now. So in summery... my draw length was too short and the thumb button amplified this.
I’m in the same boat. I have a thumb release and a wrist wrap trigger release. The trigger for me is a more consistent break. I like the feel of the thumb release better but the issue I’m having is inconsistent releases. It’s louder and I feel the break isn’t clean so my shots have been erratic especially at 50+ yards. I also keep going back to the trigger for consistency and confidence Sent from my iPhone using Bowhunting.com Forums
even though I love my Keeton wrist strap, I ordered a new B3 Hawk hook with the flex strap (index finger) yesterday from Lancaster .... been on the Joel Turner vids and his ideas/methods of shooting ... he seems to favor heavier, crisper triggers so you can get a good finger wrap and move sloooow thru the shot ... one can use back tension effectively with index finger releases, esp. if set colder... some are not able to do so 'cause they are to light of trigger and induce slapping/punching (Wise Guy, Wise Guy II)... the B3 Hawk should allow me the 'colder' setting of it .... I was shooting my thumb Tru Ball Boss X yesterday, and while I got off some great/accurate shots, I again tossed some, and am more prone to do so with it vs the wrist strap, however, when I'm 'on' with it, I'm 'on' .... looking forward to the B3 Hawk and incorporating the Turner ideas with it ...
Interesting that you mention the B3 Hawk. My all time favorite wrist strap is my Scott Rhino XT. That release came with several different springs. I shoot the heaviest spring and have it set to zero travel. I love the fact that I can "man handle" the trigger without fear of it firing. You're exactly right. You can preload the trigger with it and pull through the shot. I just bought my son the B3 Hawk for Christmas. Its almost identical in every way to the Scott I have. The only thing I will say is that the spring that comes with this release isn't heavy enough. Luckily, I had some other, stiffer springs to put in it. There is a little phillips screw on the side. If you take it out, you can swap the springs. I just prefer a really heavy trigger with no travel. I have my Stan thumb trigger set as heavy as its capable with no trigger travel. I find it keeps me more honest with either style of release.
isnt B3 owned by Scott or is run by the original owners ? ... something like that .. I'll prolly go to the heavier spring then ... I'll see how heavy I can get it and how the factory settings feel, and go from there ...... It comes with one extra spring I believe ...... I always use my practice draw cord/rope first till I figure out the release and then shoot it with the bow ....
I believe their the original owners of Scott, but could be wrong. The one I got for my son didn't have any extra springs in it. You may have to ask B3 if they have others available.
I'm the opposite of how I like a thumb to be set, but do like no creep/travel. I like them set fairly hot. Heavy enough that I can set my thumb on it and feel the knurls on the thumb barrel without having it go off, but light enough that it fires fairly quickly after I start pulling through the shot. My pin is the most steady the first 8 to 10 seconds after I'm anchored, much longer than that and it starts to move around a bit more. I find a thumb fun to mess around with, but I simply shoot better with an index. Shooting an indoor winter league this year and I have shot rounds with both to compare. I consistently shoot higher scores and X count with my index. Not by a lot, but consistently a bit better with an index. After league is over I want to switch to using the thumb exclusively for practice and 3d to see if I can improve some more with it. I don't know if I'll ever be able to hunt with a thumb. I currently absolutely suck at command shooting them compared to an index, and sometimes when hunting it is necessary to command the shot off. I can squeeze an index off just fine to command the shot, but with a thumb for some reason I flinch it off every time. I have a B3 Exit Pro, I like it quite a bit. B3 is founded by either employees that left Scott or maybe it was the original founder of Scott, I can't remember which. They definitely make some decent stuff though, and the price point is pretty good on some of their models.
who the heck holds for 8-10 seconds ?? (hold or aim ?)....... ... THAT is where I'm trying to get to, or close to it .... I hunted with thumbs for years trying to get over TP .. when learning them, I sent them down range in indoor leagues, smacked myself in the chin (nice scar), blew apart my cable rod on my old Allegiance, and got so pissed I toss one, bounced it off a tree and lost it in the creek going thru our 3D range .... however, I did finally settle down, and learned them and like I said earlier, when I'm on with them I'm on, but I still get the occasional F-up with it ... hinges scare the hell out of me to even try ... I finally got to the point with the thumbs, I was shooting 300's and upper 40's spots with them in indoors .... I just feel more secure with the index, even though that is where the TP came from and over all more accurate in a hunting situation, but I still killed quite a few deer/turkey/hogs with the thumb... I want to master the wrist strap, Joel Turners 'methods' are helping... I may try his online course one of these days, until then, I'll gleen all I can from the existing vids and pod casts .... btw, been shooting/hunting with a bow since '87/36 yrs ...
This is really something I'm considering and wanting to work on over the off season here. I'm blind bale shooting every day in my man cave and getting a pretty good surprise release. But like you said, I worry about command shooting in a hunting situation, which often is absolutely necessary. Something I stumbled across in a "how to video" on shooting thumb releases is how you activated. I'm sure this is old news, but there is a few accepted ways that people shoot them. This video talked about the idea of squeezing your ring finger toward your thumb. I've been playing with some things and what I found works well for me for that surprise shot is to simply pull through the shot with my middle finger and ring finger while keeping them firmly on the barrel and not moving it. It must slightly rotate the release and boom, off it goes. It definitely requires a relaxed, straight release hand. But it seems to be working for me so far. But the idea of squeezing fingers to command the shot may be a better way rather than hammering your thumb barrel. I dunno... its work in progress for me...
I have been shooting them by putting my thumb on the barrel (after I'm anchored), (adjusted so it sits nearly at the base of my thumb), and then I don't move any part of my hand and I just start pulling back like I'm trying to draw the bow farther back. I pull very gradually, more, more, more, and then it will suddenly go off. Sometimes I will get impatient if it takes too long and I will then flinch/pull back on the string to get it to go off. I have mostly eliminated that from happening by setting the thumb pretty hot. It does still happen when I take my first few warm up shots sometimes, but it seems to go away once I settle into my shot process rhythm. I cannot make myself consciously squeeze my thumb to make it go off smoothly, if I try I flinch it off bigger than s**t every time. I haven't worked on trying to fix that at all yet.
I'm not sure if you mean that is a fairly long shot process or short? I average right in the 8-10 second range, from the time I start drawing to the time the arrow goes. I see many people at the local range that are within that same time frame, I thought it was a fairly average amount of time? My pin movement/float definitely increases if I hold much longer than 10 seconds. That makes me tend to start aiming rather than letting the pin float and my shot process breaks down and I command the shot off. My results are much better if I can avoid that.
I was thinking you meant the 'aiming' process was that long, not including the start of draw, anchoring, leveling, etc. ... once I start 'aiming', I fire around 2-3 seconds .. I want to hold/aim longer to allow better 'pin float' and to be able to STOP the 'firing' process as needed, if one holds/aims to long, the shot process does break down .... hence the Turner vids/pod casts and have more command/control of the shot process and still have the 'surprise release' (Closed loop).. even letting down is hard at times, overcoming TP is tough, its ALL in the mind and being a type A personality dosnt help .. .. ....
Man you aren't kidding. I was getting a bit "sloppy" with my wrist strap to be honest. I have had a case of TP thats a bit odd. Basically, I have issues moving my pin to the center of the target and keeping it there. I almost always want the pin off to the side so I can actually see what I"m trying to hit. I've worked on but I need more discipline to keep working on it. I found that if I start any shooting session with 15 minutes or so of drawing, aiming for a spell, then letting down and repeating, I am much better when I shoot an arrow later. But it creeps right back in. I'm hoping changing up to a different release will also aid in that because it will trick my mind (really easy to do.. lol) a bit.
if your mind isnt fixed, changing releases is only a band aid .... but the right release can help fix that mind ..... something like that ... I can get the pin where I want it, but the pin float and working thru the shot properly is what I want to better myself with .... I want to be able to stop the process if things aren't right... letting down is a beach for me ... when I'm practicing aiming/letdowns, way to many times the sight picture/float looks to darn good and instead of practicing the 'letdown' within the aiming process, I fire even though it is the aiming/float/let down I'm practicing ... its like I went thru all this to get there, I'm gonna fire damn it !! .... ... my mind needs a reset ....
I hope it's this simple...do you shoot with one eye closed? I shot for years and years with one eye closed, I've just always done it that way. One day out of the blue a couple years ago I suddenly started having my pin settle low under the spot I was aiming at. The spot was small enough that my pin would completely obscure it if held right on it. I've done this for years with no issues, but suddenly it was an issue. My brain wanted to see what it was trying to hit suddenly, I think because my eyesight has been gradually starting to slide. Had 20/20 vision for years but after about 44 or so I started needing readers. The distance out from my face that I need readers is slowly increasing every year since then. I started using a larger spot to aim at, one that I could just hold my pin in the center and still see the outside edges of the spot. Worked great, our eye is really good at centering. Throws the whole "aim small, miss small" out the window for me, I do fine holding in the center of a larger spot. The arrow lands in the center of the spot quite often. Shooting a vegas 3 spot target, I cannot see the lines or the "X" at all, but I can center my pin in the yellow circle and still find the center just fine that way (if I execute the shot right). Then I started messing around with opening my other eye. Such a simple fix, but I didn't grasp it right away. With the other eye open the pin appears to be see through and I can still see a spot that my pin is covering up. I'm able to shoot at smaller dots again with no trouble as long as my other eye is open.
A down fall for me is hand strength arthritis makes my hands weak and occational just not work. The wrist strap helps take the pressure off my hand
Yeah, I agree. I view switching to an entirely different release the same as most recommend shooting a hinge to fix TP issues. I am not shooting a hinge, I've tried, I'm apparently too wirey for that. lol. So instead, I'm switching to a thumb to help "short circuit" my bad habits and work on building a completely different shot process. So far its been a great change for me. Its also just something different and something I can work toward. I need that. When I was shooting all those years with the wrist strap, I got so good that I "quit trying" so to speak and it made me lazy.
I have always shot with both eyes open. I usually slight squint my non dominant eye to ensure my peep eye is lined up and focused. I think wanting to see exactly the spot you're trying to hit is a really common problem. So much so that lots of spot shooters use a circle in their scope that they can just center around the bullseye on the target. I'm guessing that would be a killer setup for me, but of course we don't have that option for hunting setups.
