I will and never have called anybody lazy for hunting over bait or useing what ever weapon they want,But it also becomes easy Justin to say the things you have when you live in Illinois and don't have to spend $450 for tag to hunt big whitetails and deal with baiting.So call me a horn hunter or just another guy that is addicted to big antlers but it is also the quility of the older buck that drives that. You have not had to deal with your nieghbor dumping a dump truck 10 feet tall of beets and corn. So be careful to putting down hunters that don't like baiting because it is a thin line to the same as what you are saying..Come spend 10 years hunting only Michigan with all baiting then come back and see if the story doesn't change. Walt
uuhg. Bait smait. Legal schmegal. People that want to bait will. People that don't, won't I don't and it's not because it's illegal. If it's your thing, then have fun doing it. I have given up making myself sick over the knuckleheads that illegally do here in PA.
It is amazing how greedy some are with baiting. I am not talking the guy that hunts over a small bait pile. I have one guy in my area that dumps large amounts of bait towards the end of bow season. He has a lot of deer on his land to start with since he also runs big food plots. What is sad... he doesn't bow hunt. He wants the deer there for the sheds. Apparently 100 plus deer aren't enough... it is much better to have 400 - 500 hundred deer. It absolutely kills the chance of taking a deer within miles of his place the last few weeks of bow season. On the few years he didn't bait... the hunting is great and we pick up 40 - 50 sheds in that area. When he baits and I finally have time to hunt... the hunting sucks and we are lucky to find 5 sheds. It doesn't just effect me. There are other bowhunters in that area. We are mostly ag here. Food plots don't affect the area that a large bait pile will. Most don't run very big food plots. A large bait pile will pull in more deer then a food plot can. A lot more !! It ruins a large area since we actually have tougher winters then most states. The deer will flock to the piles. I wish they would make this type of baiting/feeding illegal. It really is pathet
I can say I don't, but it isn't legal in MN. I don't think that I would even if it ever became legal here. Personally, I've never seen a reason for it, but I wouldn't ever tell someone not to do it if it is legal where you are. We all have our reasons for baiting or not, but I don't see it as being my place to judge anyone who does so if it's legal. I don't ever see it legalized here, and personally hope it stays that way. I like the preparation that goes into a successful hunt, and I think the experience would be lessened for me if I was dumping a bag of corn on the ground and waiting for the first deer to come by. But that's just me. I find it interesting, though, how different states interpret the baiting issue. I was talking with a friend of mine who thought that using C'Mere Deer would be legal in MN since it's minerals, and not corn or sunflower seeds or whatever. I wasn't so sure, so I contacted the DNR. The response I got was basically "If it isn't planted, it's bait". But in other states, it's legal to use. Sometimes I think that things have changed too fast for the laws to keep up.
There are so many reasons that baiting should be illegal, It screws with the herd the ratio's of buck to doe but if it is legal and you want to do it go for it!!! I am going to stay off this thread after this because I always say something I regret later on.. If you love baiting come on up to Michigan and see what great effects it has had up here. 30 to 1 buck ratio's you might get to see 1 book buck every two years the herd is out of whack with deer that have NO concept of what browsing is and the dumbest deer in the woods the 1 1/2 year old buck gets wasted every year. Enough said good luck with this one and Thank you Michigan for banning it finally.Know if we could get a 1 buck a year and more doe tags only where they need to be not just a state wide thing I might be able to stay in Michigan and spend my money!! Walt
I find some responses kind of funny. We don't live in South Africa with a whole plethora of game. I don't buy for a second that more animals benefit from a clover plot than a corn pile...have you ever seen song birds and squirrels grazing on clover? I don't know of an animal in the eastern hardwoods that DOESN'T capitalize on a big fat corn pile. Birds, Turkey, Deer, Squirrels, everything besides yotes. The difference between a small food plot and a corn pile boils down to this, the guy who plants the small plots works hard at it, so he feels it is morally higher to hunt over that form of baiting than to hunt over a corn pile. I don't think Shed's term was derogatory. Baiting IS the lazier form of hunting. Not that it isn't labor intensive work at times to place the bait, but baiting just cuts down on time needed to spend afield to learn the animals patterns. No need to scout if you can just take 10 minutes each satudray to go dump out a fresh bag of corn. Similar to a pack horse drop camp is the lazier form of elk hunting than backpacking in. Or hunting 200 yards from the road is the lazier form than hiking in a mile back to get away from the crowds. Nothing wrong with taking the lazier way out of things if it still makes you happy...heck, I take the lazy route alot when hunting it seems, just not in the form of baiting. I still have no problem with baiting, just not my cup of tea personally. But to answer your question up there, baiting is required in order to fish, so obviously. But yes I would hunt wolves, bears, and coyotes over bait. Hoping the bear happens sooner than the other two.
Ok, here a few of my thoughts; Yes, the corn pile is beneficial to all kinds of animals in the woods. But a planted field of clover is not only a food source, but also turns into a habitat. Its benefits everything from the soil to insects to birds, big game, small game, predators...the whole 9 yards. One of the main reasons i dont like bating is because of the laziness, and how ALOT of guys in my area think they are the best hunters in the world because they constantly kill 160" bucks (From their heated blinds with shotguns) over corn feeders. They consider themselves deer hunting gods and spend a grand total of less than 10 hours in the woods hunting AND scouting each year. They know nothing about deer except that they like to come eat corn right before dark.
Thank you for that response. Maybe this belongs in another thread. I'll let a mod decide. First, I didn't mean baiting for fishing as putting something on the hook. I meant as far as chumming, guess I should of explained that one. Second, that was kind of what I was thinking about the generality of people. Why do people find it more acceptable to bait different species more acceptable than others? Does it have to do with pure numbers of the species? Herbivore vrs carnivore? What is it that makes people feel different about the aspect toward different species? What do you guys think?
GMMAT, baiting throws off the ratio's because the dumbest deer in the woods is a 1 1/2 year old buck and nubbin and they are the ones getting whacked here in Michigan.The 30 to 1 is not exact numbers I have no clue I am a Deputy not a bioligist!!! I do know here in Michigan you can see 30 does to 1 buck just about any day.. BYE
Again, I fail to see how a clover plot effects predators any more than a corn pile...if anything, the corn pile concentrates the prey more for them? Birds, small game, big game...all benefit from the corn...and the insects, well good ridance if the skeeters are thinned out some. My whole point is...the guy planting the food plot, does he go out thinking "MAN I can't wait to improve the soil quality of this 1/2 acre" or is it more along the lines of "MAN I can't wait to see that big ole bruiser walking out come October" Food plots ARE bait, they are just placed 6 months in advance instead of 1 week. Your hate of these fellas would hold EXACTLY the same if they instead got on a tractor and tilled up a small plot, then set in their heated blinds with shotguns and shot a bruiser as it came out before dark. ALl they would know is that deer like to eat clover right before dark. Nothing changes, no skill is involved with hunting small food plots that isnt involved with hunting bait piles. We will leave the issue of the guys egos out of this. Does it truly bother you that someone kills big bucks year in and year out by baiting? I mean, honestly... Doe Pee Steve, I would chum up fish in a heartbeat. I think the baiting difference in species has to do with the style of hunting...You aren't going to stalk bears in the MN swamps very successfully, you won't catch fish without a hook, you wont kill many wandering predators without the use of SOME kind of lure, whether it be a rotting corpse or the fake cry of a dying small animal. For me, I don't want to hunt over bait for deer because of the way you hunt over bait for deer...nothing changes really, it is pretty boring. I also find it EXTREMELY unneccessary in alot of cases. I know I would rather hunt WIHTOUT bait than with it in the bottoms I hunt, ever since I quit baiting 4-5 years ago, my big buck sightings have increased two fold during season. For me, it just boils down to the fact that for bowhunting deer I enjoy taking it to their court more. If I am invited to hunt with a friend and I arrive on stand to see a small corn pile out, I wont blow a gasket and leave stand. I would take advantage of hunting a food plot with someone in a heartbeat too, heck I killed my doe back in September out of a tiny clover plot. I just don't implement these tactics myself. I would LOVE to place a small plot of corn in the bottoms I hunt for late season food source, just dont have the machinery or money to do so. I am guilty as charged for viewing plots as somehow different than corn piles, but I also realize that in all actuality they are the EXACT same thing. I agree, it is a weird double standard, but I fall into that trap perfectly...only, I am nowhere near being actually against baiting though. Just personally choose not to.
I am kind of all over the place on the subject of baiting.I can't do it where I hunt so it is a non issue in that regard.But I think it is one of many variables that influence deer concentrations,and I can understand why someone would choose to bait or felt they were driven to bait.I also don't see a distinction between baiting one species and not another.Like why is it ok to bait bear but not deer?Why is it ok to use bait as a trapper but not as a hunter? It seems to boil down to 2 considerations,the satisfaction taken in a hunters accomplishment,and the ability to draw game that you would not have been able to otherwise. I would take no satisfaction killing an animal drawn in to an artificial food source,but I have drawn in and killed many deer using lures of various kinds,only difference is how strong a draw and the liklihood of spreading disease.In my home area we have a lot of over mature forest which doesn't hold much game,the large percentage of the game has dropped in to lower area's with the majority of that land being private and very difficult to gain access to.So in my particular example you have diminished hunting opportunities on public ground and difficulty securing permission on private land.(Woodstock NY,the I think I am an environmentalist capital of the world).I can understand why if it were legal someone would choose to bait,how else do you draw deer to land that you have secured permission to hunt. Access to good hunting land is always the bottom line! I believe the most important element of consistent success on above average deer.I don't do it but I do understand why if it were legal some would choose to.There is no one size fit's all answer with this issue.I would never get past the lack of satisfaction in taking an animal that way.Lot's of bear hunters though that are very happy when they bait successfully.
Trevor, you asked if it really bothers me that they shoot big ones year in and year out... The answer is YES. Im friends with these guys, i congratulate them and hang out with them. Some are even family. I have no problems with them at all. I just dont believe in taking the same kind of shortcuts that they do. If a guy at work came in and got a HUGE promotion after working for a week when you have been their for 2 years how would you feel? Its no different. This is just my opinion on the matter, nothing more.
I look at it as guys scoring with girls for a better example. One guy holds out for nothing but 10s, and hit a pretty long dry spell. The other guy routinely takes home 7s 8s and 9s. Can you really blame him? Would it bother you if he bragged to his friends about scoring last week, just because you didnt because you chose not to go after anything besides a 10? After all, he cut corners in takin home that perfect girl. You are looking to take home a big ole buck without the use of baits. I applaud that, and share the same goal. Just don't hold it against the guy who decides he wants to approach it a different way. Steve, good point about animal numbers. I still think it is the habits of animals alot too though. Stand hunting wolves would be pretty fruitless as they are very nomadic, constantly moving around a HUGE home area in search for a kill. Bears inhabit places where you simply CAN'T stand hunt them without drawing them into a clearing by bait. I realize the numbers are lower, but even if the numbers were higher the habits of the animals would still hold true. Deer for the most part are homebodies and creatures of habit...much more accesible without the use of baits. Pretty interesting questions though, I know my own views on how i personally do it conflict with what i KNOW is reality...just hard to shake a mindset you have formed. I KNOW baiting is no different than food plots, yet I want to do food plots if I had the money but choose not to do the other (baiting) even though i already have enough money...makes no sense.
I put out a handful of bait in front of my cameras pre-season. I used to hunt over bait, but only does and small bucks come to it during shooting hours. Last couple of years, I quit the baiting habit, and i've seen more big bucks than ever. IMO if you bait, the big boy knows your waiting for him and he's just not that stupid. I recommend it to meat hunters and beginners. For example, here in New Jersey we must harvest a doe to earn our buck tags. So, the first day I hunt over bait and stick my doe. If all goes as planned, I drop her off at the butcher, sneak into my unbaited afternoon stand, and get the big boy. That is the idea anyway, but most of the time he eludes me anyhow. Either way, we are all out in mother nature having a great time and seeing really cool stuff! Good luck all!
TEmbry, habits are HUGE when hunting obviously. It's just deep down in me though that says if you put 1,000 animals, 500 of each in the same area, you'd kill the one that moves more. Ie bears, wolves, etc. I don't claim to know more than the next guy about hunting or animal behavior, but what I've seen is that deer don't move nearly as much as other game. So to me I would think you'd have a better chance of getting an animal that moves during the daytime and more frequently. JMO. Could so be wrong and not even know it though...
Trevor, thats a pretty darn good analogy. And, like ive said, i congratulate all hunters and i was only giving my opinions. The thread asked for thoughts and i gave mine.
