Things Looking Up in PA... Monster Bucks being taken

Please enlighten us on these better solutions?
Magically convince everyone to not shoot so many little bucks?
Politley ask 3/4 of the hunters not to hunt?
Institute a draw for buck tags?
Make buck season run for 4 hours on a Tuesday afternoon?

I laugh at all those suggesting spread restictions when you have the mentality of the PA hunter we have here. They couldn't count point the 1st 5 years, & you want them to judge a spread? In ideal worlds intricate restrictions work, heck in ideal worlds they probably aren't needed.

AR aren't perfect, but over time more & more people see that bigger bucks are out there and more people realize they might have a chance at one if they arent so quick to fill thier buck tag. As a slow change of mindset creeps over the populous, guys allow bucks to get bigger by thier own accord an not because of the regulation.

 

This is exactly right ...

 

7 actually.......and terrible grammar but who's counting

Yea......pretty tough to assign that rambling nonsense to anything specific from my quote.......even the quota analogy is wrong.

 

Atlas, can't you discuss without demeaning? I love ya, Bro but that really gets annoying...

 

demeaning--see belittling, denigrating, etc

 

Numbers.........plain and simple. The biggest supporters of AR's are guys who have spent years passing smaller bucks in the woods hoping they see something bigger........that's playing numbers, let them survive and their will be older ones around soon enough.

That's NOT what AR's do...........AR's give some bucks a temp pass and then they get slaughtered next year as still a small buck. Any trickle down effect into real maturity is glacial at best..........barely better then doing nothing at all as NY's AR #'s show already.

If you have 10 new bucks a year and run AR's it is possible they all will be dead before age 3........year after year after year.

If you have 10 new bucks a year and limit kills to under 10 you will have at least that many 3 year olds in 2 years time and increasing numbers every year afterward.

Simple math.

Doesn't matter what they shoot............matters how many they shoot. In 2 years time when the slammers start becoming a non fantasy and hunters know they are out there most will not shoot the little ones, some still will. Either way 2 problems solved and mature deer as a replenishing resource.

Yea..........spread is a joke. NEVER gonna happen.

EXACTLY............and precisely why I don't want them here in NY. We can do SOOOOO much better then that. Any program that takes decades to show progress is a failure, it's that simple.

Again, BRAVO!! for doing something to address your problems but go back in time and offer guys a better answer that works twice as fast and stings half as much and you wouldn't have AR's either.

 

Give what I get bro

 

I am just glad I have been hunting my *** off lately and haven't had time to get involved in some of these threads

 

I'm about to hand out awards for all these entertaining threads lately.

 

First of all, no, I believe everyone should have to work and earn what they get, no trophies for participating. Since we seem to be in agreement there, then doesn't it make sense that you shouldn't be allowed to just kill anything just because you bought a license? Sounds like you have an entitlement issue there.

I think you missed my point buddy. If you're talking about what is fair.. Is it fair that those who wish to see more and bigger bucks have to live with everyone else shooting them before they have the chance to grow? Who the hell doesn't want to shoot a big buck anyway? If you could get your deer every year and it be a good buck to boot, wouldn't that be a win win for everyone?

I want to be up front and say that just because we may disagree here, I have no animosity or ill feelings toward you. We can certainly respectfully disagree here.

 

Atlas,
You still haven't offered an alternative to allow more buck to reach an older age class. Ahhh, maybe because there isnt one.

 

They PAID for a license to kill a deer??.........I have no problem with them legally killing any deer.......and I value the opinions of ALL hunters the same. I don't look down on "meat hunters" or "gun hunters" as some do.

What the hell does "fair" have anything to do with it?? You sound like the Occupy crowd. You obviously don't care about "fairness" as your goal is to be unfair to others.............as long as you get what you want.......screw them!!

I didn't even realize that needed to be said..........I don't take ANY of this stuff personally, god I hope no one else does, we're just killing time chatting about AR's.........what could be LESS globally important then that??

 

Dude.........I said it like 100 times. Numbers rybo...........it's the ONLY way.

 

Numbers...seriously. How do u GET these numbers?

 

Simple math............take your number of buck tags distributed vs the number of bucks killed and the average over a 4-6 year span of most recent data.

Just for easy......probably close to accurate numbers say..........

230,000 deer killed
130,000 bucks
about 20% all kills from bowhunting.

Roughly 600,000 (figure half bowhunt) have 900,000 tags and kill 130,000 bucks with only 25,000 bow buck kills


Take the state to a one buck per year state and you save 25,000 bucks a year for starters........plus the 7,000 ML kills

That's 32,000 BUCKS saved EVERY year just off the top of my head in 5 minutes of rough numbers simply by dropping to one buck a year.

That's saving about 25% of the bucks killed EVERY year............without even taking into account the fact that guys will become WAY more selective if they know they are one and done. No more, "got a buck now I'll hold out for a monster".

Within 2-3 years we would resemble Ohio.........a LOT closer then we do today anyways.


Keep in mind rybo...........our herd is in GOOD shape and our numbers are headed in the right direction at a healthy clip NOW.

NY is no where near the tire fire PA was back then. We don't need to blow it up.........just keep it headed in the right direction and maybe give it a nudge.

 

Okay, how exactly does that reflect upon PA which is already a 1 antlered deer state? How do you "play those numbers" here?

 

I don't look down on meat hunters or gun hunters either. It just seems to me the loudest hunters crying foul about the AR's is the meat hunters.

When I say fair, I'm speaking of the contradictions between the two crowds here, Meat hunters and horn hunters. The meat hunters say its unfair that they can't shoot any buck that walks up to them, the horn hunters say its unfair that they stand less of a chance to killing a good buck because the meat hunters will shoot them before maturity. It goes both ways.

If I got what I wanted, everyone would be have the opportunity to fill their tag(s) every year AND kill a decent buck in the process. I can't think of one person who ever said they don't want to shoot a big buck, regardless of whether they're just filling the freezer or horn hunting. If there is a 4pt and a 10pt standing in a field, which one do you think gets it first from any hunter? To me, besides a kid taking their first deer, there is nothing cooler than hearing or reading about a hunter shooting the biggest buck of their life, especially after years of hunting.

I think the AR's are fine and certainly can't hurt anything. Its the HR of this state that concerns me more. Personally, I wish they'd go back to a 3 day antlerless gun season again. At least they started sliding back a bit, with buck only the first week and a free for all the second in many units such as they one I'm in.

 

You could have done buck every other year for 2-4 years. 1-2 years of pain for each hunter and those without buck tag get extra doe tags.


Simple........and you'd be better off then you are now.

 

You don't want the PGC telling you that you can't shoot a buck with 2 points on each side, but you want them to be able to tell you that you can't hunt for a buck every year? Yeah, try that out and see how much the hunters agree with that.

 

You are so out of touch with reality here. Good luck up there in NY.
There is a HUGE, HUGE percent of hunters here in PA that dont want to shoot extra does, dont want to shoot any doe even if you handed them a stack of free tags. Its all about that bit of bone on a deer's head. Telling people they couldn't shoot a buck at all...yea that has ZERO, NIL, NONE, not a single chance of ever going over in this state.