Things Looking Up in PA... Monster Bucks being taken

In their hearts they HAVE to know it's been a failure........what's it been almost a decade to enact such a slight change?? No way they could have ever sold that time frame when they were pushing for this.......no way an entire state would agree to drastic changes like that in exchange for minimal improvement 10 years later.

I'm not trying to be hard on PA guys as they had no choice..........what I am saying is that other states should learn from their failure and certainly not repeat it.

 

Antler restrictions work...cant wait for more wide spread use of them in NY.

 

This year in 2C I saw 2 spikes and a small basket rack 8. This was one of my worst years ever for overall deer sightings and bucks. That 8pt I saw pulling in my spot one morning I never did see a legal buck while on stand.

 

It's simply a numbers game Tony..........states like NY and PA have twice the number of hunters chasing deer and we let each hunter potentially kill 2 bucks........PA at least is smart enough to limit to 1 to help them out.

Dude, Kansas has like 100,000 hunters or something crazy like that...........I have seen that many guys in orange coats on opening day before fighting for the same spot LOL

EVERYONE'S definition of a "honey hole" is good PRIVATE land with as little pressure as possible. AR's won't change the battlefields.

 

Feel free to prove that statement. Here is a trail cam photo from this year of my buddies place down the road from our cabin. I help him with his food plots every year. NY doesn't need AR's

 

Atlas - if you don't think the AR's have worked in PA, your definition of "success" is very different than that of every person I know of in PA that deer hunts. It's more than just spike/forks to now basket 6's/8's. Yes, there is a significantly larger rate of 2.5 y/o basket rack bucks, but the rate of 3.5+ y/o bucks killed is significantly higher too. No it's not like the midwest, but if you put your time in there is a legit chance that your going to see a 3.5 y/o buck now, that was not the case 10 years ago.


At my family property and the surrounding plots in Bradford county (think 700-800 acres) they went from 2x bucks between 120-140" taken in a 20 year period to about 7 seperate bucks I know of between 120-145" in the last 4 years. I hunted PA every year from 1995-2008. I had only seen one 100"+ buck there before about 2005. Between 2005-2008, I was seeing 1-2 deer every year that was 120-140". This isn't even the better part of the state, as it's pretty far northeast.....the better parts of the state are out west.

 

AR's made a differance, its that simple. They aren't a quick solution but it is very easy to see the changes. As others have mentioned, a 100" buck was a monster just 10 years ago, now those standards are up in the 140-150" range. No, its not Ohio, Illinois, Kansas, or Iowa, but it's better than what it was.

I can't give details but I know of an absolute monster that was killed in the big woods on Monday...main frame 10 that is roughly 24" wide, huge beams, and probably 10" G-2's, 12" G-3's, and 10" G-4's with brow's around 7". My buddy talked to the guy who shot it and sent me a picture. My buddy killed a 159-6/8" 8 point from the same general area a few years ago and said that this buck made his look small.

 

I live 2 hours over the PA border in WNY. I have hunted PA a number of times with friends and know tons of guys who hunt(ed) PA as part of their yearly routine. I get the same feedback from nearly everyone I speak with........couple big bucks fall each year and those desperate for validation cling to them as some sort of sign things have changed. The reality being the deer herd has been slaughtered down horribly and your avg PA Joe is whacking a 6 pt instead of a spiker. Are there small pockets of private land or individual cases where things have improved???.......of course there are, but as a whole for the entire state??? Epic failure. I can't imagine a single person in PA would have supported the program had the true glacially slow "progress" had been known.

I applaud you guys for doing SOMETHING..............you just did the wrong thing.

Show me quality data that supports what you are saying is occurring statewide in PA.

Individual case studies don't interest me much............I could take you to places in NY that can stand toe to toe with the midwest............then I could take you somewhere else where you'd be lucky to see a deer.

 

Yup...............pretty pathetic results, most likely statistically insignificant. When considering their data collection techniques and relying on reported "sightings" it really devolves into a joke.

11% "reported" higher take of 3.5 year olds in the AR zone and 7% in zones without??......LOL Wonder what the p value on that data would show??


Geesh man.........you'd think those morons would at least try to match sample sizes..............my guess is they simply don't care as all they need to do is show the average knuckledragger a big rack and they will vote for anything.

 

"Individual case studies don't interest me much............I could take you to places in NY that can stand toe to toe with the midwest............then I could take you somewhere else where you'd be lucky to see a deer. "




Is your picture above one of the individual studies/examples that your don't interest you?

 

Well, that settles it...........so if I show you some pictures of big deer killed in NY that means we don't need AR's then right??

 

WI needs ARs. Points & spread.

 

Here is enough data for me to know that it's successful in the eyes of the majority of PA hunters........Question 39. FYI, the "WMU marked above" indicates the WMU that person hunted in the majority of the time during the 2011 season. 6000 people represented 22 WMU's in this survey.

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/porta...er_survey_-_preliminary_statewide_results_pdf

Some interesting stats as well......

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...evKy_U4ShRkXRZhfA&sig2=utEE9lbXxj2JCJUaok2vwg

While there isn't the exact data I'd like to see available anywhere I can find on the web, what this is telling us is that before AR 20% of all harvested antlered deer were 2.5+ y/o. Today 45% of all harvested antlered deer are 2.5y/o+ with about 11.25% of deer being harvested being 3.5y/o+. While there is no hard data showing the percentage of 3.5+ y/o before 2002, I think it can be safely assumed by anyone that has hunted the state for any period of time that it wasn't nearly that high. I think the 61% of people satisfied with the AR's in the first stat back that assumption up as well.

 

No...........it's an illustration that NY doesn't need AR's to grow big bucks We already have everything we need..........ease up on the slaughtering and they will be there.

Why would you want to legislate what someone else gets to shoot with a tag THEY paid for?? I don't have any interest in MORE govt intrusion into what people can or can't do in their free time based on what some other jackass says because they believe they know better how to live someone elses life.

Leave people alone and let them enjoy hunting............if they enjoy blasting a 4 pt and you don't who cares??

 

Now that I feel is a perfectly valid argument. Not that AR's don't work. I can assure you that AR's do work, but I can see and respect that a lot of people would prefer to make the decision on their own.

 

But didn't you say shorten gun season and only allow one buck? Isn't that legislating what someone else shoots for the tags they pay for?

 

WOW........you did see where only 76% of these guys even hunt every year??.......only half consider hunting very important??

77% were unable to kill a doe??

53% unhappy with the antlered deer they saw
45% unhappy with the does they saw
38% unhappy with the quality of bucks seen

36% LESS interested in hunting PA then they were 5 years ago

60% think their units population is decreasing and 66% think it is already too low

74% say antlered deer sightings in their unit are not good......61% say same for does

Average archery hunter was 7 days afield?? Yikes.


More people dissatisfied with their hunting experience then satisfied.


All that info and you think AR's are a success based on 6 guys liking them to every 4 who don't??


Wow.

 

Yes.

No..........you can still shoot whatever you want. There will always be a need for quantity limits unless you want them extinct.

 

Can't and won't speak for the state but my personal data, local taxidermist numbers and discussions with die hard educated bowhunters, my support for AR's are still validated each year.

But back on Topic, sure is nice to see muzzyman88, sure is nice to see. All taxidermists in my area will report that the bucks are certainly growing, both age and antlers, for whatever reason.