Apology accepted. Perhaps there was a lession in all of this. If it helps you stay focused in the future, I will count it as a positive.
You can't be serious. The main topic of this thread is unions and the choke hold they thought they had on the state of Wisconsin. That goes without saying. Why would you NOT want to talk about the unions? The unions and their entitlement mentalities have backed this country so far into the corner that we may never completely recover. The primary reason we have lost most of our manufacturing industry in the U.S. can be directly attributed to the unions. Germ, you even support my argument by pointing out the fact that private schools don't pay as much as union staffed schools. Why do you think that is? Perhaps the private schools have to actually operate within a budget because nobody is going to bail them out financially. The private schools may actually spend more per student on education materials. In most instances, the students in private schools are getting a better education. In other words, they are producing a superior product for less input costs. Perhaps the union jobs pay scale is a bit inflated? How hard is it to remove an inferior teacher from a union job? Let me answer, nearly impossible. Is that really what we need? Should a union job be an assurance or guarantee that sub-par performance is allowed? Should union employees in manufacturing be making a wage that allows them to comfortably retire with full benefits at the age of 50? 55? I know several that have. They didnt even have a degree. Should they really make more than my CPA or County Engineer? If so, why? Please enlighten me as to how this topic has nothing to do with unions and their strong arm tactics that have nearly crippled the economy of this country. By the way, my knowledge of union jobs is not rumor or speculation. I have seen it, lived it, and heard the first hand accounts of union employment practices from union employees that should make every American citizen scream in anger. Unions once had their place and served an honorable purpose. Those days are long gone. Unfortunately, so are many of the jobs they chased out of the country in the process.
Public sector unions that take from my wallet to pad their lavish pension and benefits is where I am concerned. When they sue to take more of my money so they can get Viagra, I draw the line. The public sector union got too big for its britches and WI taxpayers told them what they think. Walker’s reforms are working and the win was sizable. Yes, private sector unions once served a purpose. I don’t think the public sector ought to be unionized. Electric typewriters and buggy seats and kerosene lanterns once had their place and were highly valued but like public sector unions, they are no longer needed, especially since they seem to exist to make union bosses uber rich.
Fletch we we talking on how to get the engine of our encononmy moving again, I wanted to hear your ideas with out all the Union dribble. That's it, just your ideas on what can be done and the good conversation we were having on attracting new business(not taking from other states) to Wis or anywhere. We were talking about how 70% is consumer driven and what we can do to get more free cash to our largest consumer base to get line moving up. Instead of being flat. As for public vs private I am the wrong guy. Yes my wife teaches at a public school, but I have pulled my daughter and she now will attend a private school next year. To compare them it's not apples to apples. My daughter had 28 kids in her class, now she will have 15. Those 15 needed to be straight A students and pass a test to get in. Her math class will have 4, being she tested out of 6th grade math. So which school will be better? It's not even going to be close, but it also cost 3000 grand more than what her old school got per student. I hate whining about union dues, if your wife does not want to pay them have her get another job in education. Yes union teachers make more and have better benefits, we can argue that one both ways now can't we? Yes they make more because others have fought for it, or yes they make more because they bought and paid elected officials to give it them. Private schools most do not have busing, it's expensive, in fact it's the second largest cost at most schools. My wifes school will end busing for HS next year. MI Schools cannot opereate in a defecit, if they have one and it is not balanced an emergency manage comes it. He can pretty much do what he wants. Unlike private schools they cannot just raise tution. So there is a distinct difference when you look under the hood between them. I pulled her because this fight going on right now is eroding our public education system and kids are paying the price. I cannot and will not have that happen to my kids. Remember the two men I looked up to the most in my life were in unions and great men. WWII vets and terrific family men and did wonders for our community. When I walk into the credit union my grandfather started I still have great pride and I get great service. Right now the blame game is going on, I don't really care who's fault it is, I don't really care what party you are with, I want the issues to be fixed.
Really, union talk is dribble? That surpises me since they have had a profound impact on jobs and the economy. I tend to think they require far more retrospect in the conversation than to be considered dribble. By the way, my wife quit her union job. She now owns and operates three cell phone retail stores and employs several people. She is interviewing applicants for another position now. I would say she is doing her part to stimulate the economy, wouldnt you? We need to encourage small business growth with tax incentives, and low interest loans, not continue to attack any business that makes a profit with higher taxes. Many times, those profits are turned into expansion and more jobs. She pays quite a bit less than a union job would be and has no shortage of applicants. People that are not greedy are willing to work for a fair wage. She takes little to no pay for now as she grows the business and works a lot of hours. But, if some day she enjoys a lot of success and is able to pay herself a salary that puts her in the top 5% of wage earners, many will only look at her as another rich capitalist that is not paying her fair share of taxes. They will not give any thought to the long hours, huge risk, and sacrifices she made to enjoy that success. Jealousy among the entitlement crowd is poison to our system.
Who is this many you speak for? I honestly hope she does make it and raises the income level for the top 5%, being they also have been almost flat in growth also. The talk today on unions is dribble on both sides, that's how I view it. Just a blame a game. Funny I am for most of what you stated, and am for one of Reagans key points. Why does income get taxed at a higher rate than investments? As Reagan thought and did I believe they should be taxed the same.
The "many" are those that did not take advantage of opportunities given to them. Those that would rather not put in the effort to get an education. Those that were educated in places like Madison where they were taught that they have not been given their fair share. Those that would rather not take any risk. Those that would rather not put in the long hours required to build a successful business. Those that would rather live off handouts and entitlements. Those that believe working in a union shop or having a job with the state should entitle them to make 25% more than the private sector. Those that are jealous of hard earned wealth. Those that are jealous of inherited wealth. Those that are jealous of anyone that has more than themselves. The folks that want everything but arent willing to go get it the hard way. That's the "many" I refer to. And believe me, there are many, and they vote...........an uninformed vote, but a vote none the less. That was painfully obvious the last election. I still wonder what the outcome of the last election would have been if you had to prove that you work and also paid federal income tax prior to voting. My guess is, much, much, differently.
Nope! actually we are talking about the union driven recall tantrum that failed. You want to talk about everything except the subject matter of this thread. I would suggest starting your own thread to talk about those things.
Trying to get the thread back on topic. http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/lo...cle_82fa0a7e-b25f-11e1-9c50-001a4bcf887a.html http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/op...cle_94b4d712-b1d3-11e1-bd85-0019bb2963f4.html
Fletch thanks for some good honest post, I enjoying reading your thoughts and different view points. Crabby thank you also for your post which have enlighten me and changed me as a person. Dare I say you make me want to be better.
The winner is reaching out to the losers. Hopefully the losers know their place and that its them that have to make consessions and soften their stance and join with the governor and not the other way around. The governor has a renewed mandate. The people have spoken and they want the direction the governor is taking the state, not the other way around. http://walker.wi.gov/Default.aspx?Page=81ab09c5-73f0-4bb8-bd41-9fea00228689
