"The Void"

Discussion in 'Bowhunting Talk' started by Siman/OH, Oct 18, 2012.

  1. Muzzy Man

    Muzzy Man Grizzled Veteran

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    Nah... just entertaining myself with word fun. Sorry:evilgrin:
     
  2. Schultzy

    Schultzy Grizzled Veteran

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    No doubt Ryan I believe you. There's not near the stuff back there that can kill a deer. In 2008 or 2009 my brother hit a 350lb+ bear way too far back. The arrow went In below the spine right behind the ribs. The arrow penetrated Into the far back leg bone on the other side. The next year my dad shot this very same bear. That's how we knew where my brother had hit It the year before.
     
  3. Xlr8n

    Xlr8n Weekend Warrior

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    Here's a deer I shot several years back. Above my broadhead entry hole you can see another three-blade broadhead pass-through shot which my brother-in-law had made in attempting to take the same deer three days earlier. Passed through with no damage to the lungs. Deer had dropped like he was spine hit only to get up and trot off a minute later. Three days after the shot he came in to my grunt tube and was ready to fight.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  4. Fitz

    Fitz Legendary Woodsman

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    Is his hole and entrance or exit? Was in in a stand or on the ground when he shot?
     
  5. Tony

    Tony Legendary Woodsman

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    He hit the spine fins.... shocked the spinal chord for a sec which caused it to drop....
     
  6. Xlr8n

    Xlr8n Weekend Warrior

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    That was the exit hole. The entrance hole was a bit higher. Shot from a stand that was situated down the slope from the trail so shooter was only about ten feet higher than the deer.

    Looked like it went through right next to the spine when we put a field arrow through it afterward, but no visible damage to the lungs. There was a bit of hemorrage and clot at the top of the pleural cavity and the arrow channel appeared to just perforate the upper right pleural cavity. Couldn't believe he didn't stay down. Tough mother for sure.
     
  7. Fitz

    Fitz Legendary Woodsman

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    I'd say it would have gone above the spine.

    I'm also not saying that you can't hit a deer high in the lungs and have it live. There's just no void.

    Here's a better shot with a crosssection. The lungs actully rise to the top of the spine. If you are below the spine, you're in the lungs...

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Xlr8n

    Xlr8n Weekend Warrior

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    I agree^^.

    Back when it took place I had thought it was a shot below the spine due to hemorrage in the cavity, but it likely passed just above the spine and had a blade still barely perforate the upper right pleural cavity as shown in your frontal cross-section pic.

    In any case, it was an unusual survival shot. We were both very thankful I ended up with a second shot at the deer as after two days of looking after the first encounter, we were fearful he may have gotten into the river and not survived.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2012
  9. Rutin

    Rutin Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Unfortunately Ive learned the hard way and the closer you are the shoulder the lower you need to be. The spine dips lower right there so its easy to shoot above it and hit the "void" area which would look like a great shot. unfortunately its not a void, its a deception in the deers anamoty.
     
  10. Pops423

    Pops423 Weekend Warrior

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    Thanks to Fitz and Xlr8n, I know better understand what happened to my deer last year. The buck laying in the front of
    Xlr8n is exactly where I saw my arrow go in. Also explains why looking for 4 days turned up nothing.
     
  11. Christine

    Christine Grizzled Veteran

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    Those are some great pics Fitz. I'm going to post a psuedo-necropsy on that after the shot thread but I want to post some here too.

    See this entrance? Doesn't really look all that high does it?
    [​IMG]

    This is what it looks like with the hide, backstrap and shoulder removed. It is a 'high' hit.
    [​IMG]

    From the inside of the ribcage. Two inches higher and it would have been a spine hit. Also note the curvature of the ribs. You can't shoot under the spinal column and over the lungs.
    [​IMG]
     
  12. drath

    drath Weekend Warrior

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    This is a fantastic thread. Thanks to all.

    -D
     
  13. jeffacarp

    jeffacarp Grizzled Veteran

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    great pics christine! That really puts it in perspective.

    here's something to muddy the waters...its obvious from Fitz pictures (great pics btw) that on inhalation a deers lungs have the potential to rise inline with the spinal column thus eliminating the "void". However, deer have a diaphragm, diaphragm contracts, lungs expand with air and fill the entire pleural space up to the spine. Deer exhales, diaphragm relaxes lungs return to their resting state and volume (likely below the level of the spine). I'm thinking there is a small chance that a hunter could shoot a deer on exhalation below the spine and not hit lung tissue. This would still result in a pneumothorax for the whitetail and it would die eventually, just a lot slower than one hit through the lung tissue. These are just my thoughts, I have no field evidence to back this.

    bash away....
     
  14. Rob / PA

    Rob / PA Grizzled Veteran

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    I've posted this first photo many, many, many times in "Void" threads... it ends the argument! Thanks for saving me the time.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  15. Vendetta

    Vendetta Die Hard Bowhunter

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    This^

    It's easier to see via this xray:

    Canine_Xray_stock.jpg

    Granted this is a canine xray, but a deer xray would not differ much. The black space is the lungs (for those that do not know), and notice it meets the spinal column.
     
  16. thisoldfish

    thisoldfish Newb

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    This is an incredibly helpful thread- I was referred to it after I posted tonight reporting the same thing. I thought my shot looked a bit high but thought it would still be double lung- but given how anterior I was I think I was above spine. Thanks guys- very helpful.
     
  17. Tyson

    Tyson Newb

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    well.. this clears somethings up for me..
     

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