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The Shut Down beyond a rant.

Discussion in 'The Water Cooler' started by Sota, Jan 20, 2018.

  1. virginiashadow

    virginiashadow Legendary Woodsman

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    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
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  2. dnoodles

    dnoodles Legendary Woodsman

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    Typical Prog demagogic histrionics. Not to mention completely devoid of facts.

    First, she can't even get her "races" right. Hispanic is not a race- it's a culture. "Hispanics'" ethnicities are comprised of Caucasian, African, and First American "races." They are bonded by a common language and similar historical experience- not ethnicity or geography. The average Dominican isn't much like nor fond of the average Mexican. They just happen to speak the same language.

    Second- a very large percentage of immigrants are "Caucasian," Asian, African, and Middle Eastern.

    Third- immigrants (both illegal and legal) from countries other than MX outnumbers those from MX. Not to say that the majority of OTMs don't use MX as the illegal entry point.

    Lastly; even if all immigration were to end today, America will never be a majority "white" (non-Hispanic) country again. Pew has done really good un-biased research on this

    http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/05/17/explaining-why-minority-births-now-outnumber-white-births/

    Between current demographics, birth rates, and interracial births; Caucasians are now (or by 2020) will comprise less than 50% of the US population... not that it matters to me. My wife is of multi-racial Hispanic-mutt background. She's gorgeous, smart, and bi-lingual. But she is 100% American. She was born here to legal immigrants, served in the US military, gone to college, believes in hard work, low taxes, and a limited government. That's as American as one could be.

    That's what Americans do- take the best aspects of all cultures and mix it with our own. That's the real melting pot- not racial but cultural. Race is inconsequential- culture is not. If you bring in too many cultures at once they do not assimilate; but Balkanize and we lose our cohesiveness and identities as "American." It's not racist to say American culture is better than others and we need to protect it. Nationalism does not equal white supremacy.
     
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  3. tc racing

    tc racing Grizzled Veteran

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    good news! tax cut is real. my wife noticed about $20 more in her pay, which equals roughly $500 more per year! thanks Donald your the man!
     
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  4. Germ

    Germ Legendary Woodsman

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    Don't go wild with that tax cut money;)
     
  5. MnHunterr

    MnHunterr Legendary Woodsman

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    Can someone explain to me what each side is looking for when they are discussing immigration? Why are the democrats for "dreamers" and why are republicans fighting what the democrats are asking? I'm having a hard time understanding what the big issue is here... When I think of immigration I think of illegals crossing our border without I.D. etc. I keep seeing things about people who were brought here illegally as children, obtained citizenship, and now there's a problem. What is that problem? Are they able to somehow bring relatives here? What is the divide really about?

    I know there are some extreme views on immigration here but I'm curious. As a PSA - I do not study politics and do not consider myself democrat or republican.
     
  6. dmen

    dmen Die Hard Bowhunter

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    The “dreamers” do not have citizenship. The liberals want to give them and everyone related to them citizenship. Hardline conservatives say ship them all back. The middle road, which Trump offered is allow the illegal dreamers a pathway to citizenship, but in return have stronger border security, and no pathway for the illegal aliens who brought the dreamers here. It is funny, because the liberals started off saying help the dreamers, when trump offered the deal, all of a sudden just helping the dreamers is not enough. Personally if we allow these “dreamers” to stay they should have a background check and any with criminal history, on public assistance or just not productive people should be sent to country of origin.
     
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  7. Germ

    Germ Legendary Woodsman

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    Simple I am just looking for a path for the to become a citizen or shipped them out. I am just looking for congress to do something. I would support a path before we boot them, but would support whatever we do.
     
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  8. MnHunterr

    MnHunterr Legendary Woodsman

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    Thank you!
     
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  9. LittleChief

    LittleChief Administrator

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    That might not be a lot to you, but it's a significant amount to some people.

    Tc racing's post motivated me to check the math on my pay stubs at St. Jude. My federal tax rate dropped from 20.6% to 18.5%. That's an extra $42.72 per pay period / $92.56 per month / $1,110.72 a year. That'll pay my electric bill most months, so I'll take it and be grateful.

    I would assume it will have a similar impact on my military retired pay also, so it gets even better.
     
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  10. dnoodles

    dnoodles Legendary Woodsman

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    The "dreamers" are a segment of illegal aliens that were brought here as juveniles by their illegal alien parents. "Dreamers" do not have any legal status...or didn't; until BHO illegally went around Congress and not only ordered ICE to not deport them (which is a twisted and overly broad interpretation of "prosecutorial discretion" but at least has some root in law) but also give them work permits - which is a benefit provided by the government and a completely unconstitutional act by the executive branch. In act and deed, the DACA program was a clear violation of 8 USC 1324(iv) - Bringing in or Harboring Certain Aliens.

    What the current President is proposing is that Congress pass a law codifying a limited DACA-type program, which once is lawfully passed in both houses of Congress and then signed into law by the President would grant these "Dreamers" legal status and eventually allow them to apply for lawful permanent residency and/or US Citizenship.

    The conservatives' opposition to BHO's DACA executive order was multi-faceted-
    1) Generally, Conservatives oppose over-reach and abuse of power by the executive branch (the President is not King.) Only Congress has the power to change current immigration (or any ) law
    2) It is inherently unfair to allow illegal line cutters to jump ahead of the millions of legal immigrants standing in line, paying all the appropriate fees, and submitting to background checks
    3) DACA applications were rife with fraud and abuse, and CIS (the agency who processed DACA applicants) magic-wanded a huge number of them without any real background checks

    The main issue with any amnesty to these Dreamers is that for years, all Dems have cried about is how these "kids" (most are over 35 now) were brought here through no fault of their own, are doctors, lawyers, soldiers, and future astronauts. The reality is that most "DACA-eligible" illegals are on public assistance, only a small percentage have college degrees (not that a sheepskin maketh the man but that's the Democrat mantra) and many more are in prison than have ever served in the military. Furthermore, while there presence here in the USA may not be their fault, it sure as hell is their illegal alien parents' faults and the alien parents should not be allowed to apply for residency based on any amnesty given to their kids- it is in effect a back-door anchor baby amnesty and is ridiculous on its face. "Dreamers" and all illegal aliens use public assistance at a massive level compared to native-born Americans. Dems know that importing a permanent underclass ensures them an unbreakable voting block. Never forget- the Dem party is now and has always been the party of dependence and slavery. The slaves of today don't wear chains, they carry WIC and SNAP cards from cradle to grave. And they vote Democrat.

    I think I speak for a lot of Conservatives on "Dreamer" amnesty- OK, let "Dreamers" who have HS degrees, stable employment history, or who have served in the military and don't have criminal backgrounds or gang affiliations stay and work towards lawful permanent residency. Maybe even eventually citizenship. That's fine, they can stay. But all their illegal parents have to go. Like as in the same day the "dreamer" registers for DACA. Buh-bye. No chain migration for Dreamers' families, and no backdoor amnesty for their parents.

    Becoming an immigrant should be hard. We should only accept those who want to come here, work hard, follow the law, and are willing to endure some hardship to do so. If it's as easy as walking across an imaginary line on the ground, swimming a river, or overstaying a visa; there is no incentive for these people to emigrate legally much less stay home and fix their own craphole countries, which will continue on into infinity until all those crapheads from all those crapholes come here and turn us into an unfixable craphole as well...

    the Socialist dream- every place is equally crappy and equally miserable.
     
  11. dnoodles

    dnoodles Legendary Woodsman

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    between the tax cut, playing with my 401k contribution, going onto my own health insurance (splitting from my wife's employer-offered) I can now contribute $460/mo MORE to my 401k per month than I was in 2017 and am only taking home $200 less per month.

    So I may not being going wild now, but when I retire in 12 years @ a conservative 10% 401k growth rate I sure as heck will be!
     
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  12. Germ

    Germ Legendary Woodsman

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    Trump will get you at least 15%:moose:

    I am set to retire whenever someone pisses me off at work;) Good for you FYI
     
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  13. dnoodles

    dnoodles Legendary Woodsman

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    well, since I can't retire until 2028 I am factoring in the 4 years of crappy growth under the inevitable Dem rule after Trump leaves office in 2024 :moose:
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
  14. Germ

    Germ Legendary Woodsman

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    I did also, Trumps is just that good;
     
  15. dnoodles

    dnoodles Legendary Woodsman

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    finally, you see the light. :usa:
     
  16. MnHunterr

    MnHunterr Legendary Woodsman

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    Thank you! Very, very well explained. I have to side with the republicans on this one 100%.
     
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  17. dnoodles

    dnoodles Legendary Woodsman

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    fixed it for you. Way too many self-proclaimed "R"s are full-on board for status quo. They love them some cheap labor.
     
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  18. MnHunterr

    MnHunterr Legendary Woodsman

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    Ha. Works for me!
     
  19. virginiashadow

    virginiashadow Legendary Woodsman

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    Here is the law letting you know you have a certain amount of years to lawfully remain in the US by gaining citizenship. You don't abide by those laws and stay anyways. So we create a temporary stay and allow you X amount of time to gain citizenship. Many many many years later you still aren't a citizen.

    And now it is the United States fault for being "bullies" and actually wanting people to follow the law in regards to a pretty serious issue. How dare Americans feel like people should follow the immigration laws.
     
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  20. tc racing

    tc racing Grizzled Veteran

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    glad I got you guys to check things out. now how can people hate a guy that gave them more money? finally a president that is on my side fighting for me!
     

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