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The Shut Down beyond a rant.

Discussion in 'The Water Cooler' started by Sota, Jan 20, 2018.

  1. Germ

    Germ Legendary Woodsman

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    The probably just got a visa and over stayed, you know the majority of our immigration issues.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  2. CoveyMaster

    CoveyMaster Grizzled Veteran

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    Yeah, I'm sure those are terribly hard to renew. It'd be terrible to have to actually renew their paperwork. If it's not renewable then I assume it's a limited resource, was known when issued it was limited issue and is that way for a reason. Damn inconvenient laws and regulations, they should all be ignored I guess.
    Nowhere else in the US is that kind of thing ignored and without consequence. I can't ignore speed limits, taxes or anything else like that and I was born here. The absurdity is astounding.
     
  3. dnoodles

    dnoodles Legendary Woodsman

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    Numerically that is incorrect (although close) and only serves to illustrate we MUST have an exit visa program which has been conspicuously absent in any of the immigration talk lately.

    Honestly- the easiest immigration control we have is visa regulation- make overstay an felony. Period; end of story. Fingerprints and retinal scans of all visa holders on file. If you overstay and are ever encountered by law enforcement the rest of your life you get a year in jail and immediate launch upon completion of your sentence; a lifetime ban on re-entry, and whoever sponsored your original visa application gets charged w/harboring.

    But the wall is only half about immigration- yes, you know about the amount of drugs that pour across....but if you had any idea of how many prayer rugs, Korans, and people from countries of interest (i.e. Middle East, Pakistan, Indonesia, China) that are found/caught at the SW border every year you would crap your britches and beg DJT for the wall, full militarization of the border, and the biggest, hugest, reddest nuclear button in the world.
     
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  4. dnoodles

    dnoodles Legendary Woodsman

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    Covey, I'm on your side but yes visas can be hard to re-new (depends on the country -some are hard, some require bribes to the country of origin, but some rubber stamped and some are in the visa waiver program)...but it's incredibly easy to overstay with almost zero consequences.
     
  5. dnoodles

    dnoodles Legendary Woodsman

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    As far as the 7/11 thing- those were almost all identity theft/ SSN fraud violations, and many of the people came from Pakistan. You know- the country that should be on the travel ban. Enjoy those slurpees with a side of IED.
     
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  6. Germ

    Germ Legendary Woodsman

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    Majority of our immigration problem with terrorist and people who want to kill us, let me clarify a bit more.

    on your ideas, you have my vote
     
  7. chieffan

    chieffan Weekend Warrior

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    Most of the so called dreamers are over the age of 18. Why haven't they done something towards getting their US citizenship? ? They wanted to ride the gravy train? Thought they had a free ride?
     
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  8. Parker70

    Parker70 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I truly don't think a wall will do anything period but I agree with this. Set a deadline and if they're still illegal by that date kick them out.

    The enforcement in this country is weak. Only thing that would truly change illegal imegration is if employers who hire illegals are met with real consequences like being substantially fined... Let's start at 20k per illegal. More depending on company size and how many times you've been caught. Prison time for employers would help too.

    Neither party would ever go tough on the employers though because it would hurt their bottom line and therefore donations to candidates. Plus there could also be negative economic consequences as a whole at least short term if all the illegals disappeared.
     
  9. dnoodles

    dnoodles Legendary Woodsman

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    E-verify...most Rs are for it, almost no Ds

    That's part of the equation- the other is the fear amongst illegals that it would create a de-facto alien registry that could be used to find/deport them. Which is true if we had the guts to do it. Most of the "dreamers" are over 35, btw. Less than 1000 have served in the military. More than 2000 are convicted felons.
    I appreciate the vote but as much as I hate Islamic terror there are hundreds of thousands more American civilians dead at the hands of illegal aliens and narcotics pouring over the SW border than jihadis who got here by any means (including native born.)

    Not to mention the downward pressure on labor and thereby wages. You know who 2 of the most prominent anti-illegal immigrant activists of the 20th century were? Cesar Chavez and MLK Jr.- because they knew that illegal aliens drive down wages and limit low-skilled job opportunities; and are much more likely to be exploited and abused by your favorite Corporatist boogeymen.
     
  10. Germ

    Germ Legendary Woodsman

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    Because the dreamers can't apply for citizenship, there is no path for them to do so. You can't walk into immigration as a 34 year old who has been here since he was 8 and say "How do I become a citizen". This is what Obama and now Trumps as asking congress to do, and I agree with Trump 100%, this is not the presidents problem to solve, it's congress problem.
     
  11. Germ

    Germ Legendary Woodsman

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    2000 number is about .98 rate for incarceration, for example native born rate is 1.12, so they are about on par with us.
     
  12. Sota

    Sota Legendary Woodsman

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    You should have a degree in being wrong. You are given an explanation about the wall and you dismiss any possible explanation simply because you are against it.
     
  13. Sota

    Sota Legendary Woodsman

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  14. MnHunterr

    MnHunterr Legendary Woodsman

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    Drug smuggling tunnels will simply become migration tunnels, and there will be a lot more of them being made. The wall will slow illegals entering the country but it won't last long before alternate methods of entering the country are found.
     
  15. Germ

    Germ Legendary Woodsman

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    I said prisons have 4 walls and drugs still get in, so a wall or walls don't stop the flow of drugs. So building a wall is not going to stop or slow drugs coming in. The cartel's are not going to let a wall stop them from making money. I am not against the wall if President Trump follows through on his campaign promise to have Mexico pay for it. It's called not being a lemming and holding the people we elect accountable, you should try it;)
     
  16. Germ

    Germ Legendary Woodsman

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    Since the wall is supposed to hinder drugs coming across the border I take that into account also, perhaps you don't.
     
  17. dnoodles

    dnoodles Legendary Woodsman

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    Underlined part is 100% incorrect. Many have and did prior to the DACA ExO. Doesn't mean their applications were approved; or even judicially reviewed. But there was literally nothing preventing them from applying for status other than fear, laziness, and/or hoping for eventual amnesty.

    Ok, but doesn't mean we have to import more criminals or let the ones who commit crimes stay. I'm just sick of the "oh, they're angels, military vets, and future Einsteins" sob story. They're much less likely to be HS grads, and massively more likely to be systematic users of public assistance. It's much easier (and more fair) to address those who are of clear benefit to us as a nation on a case by case basis than blanket amnesty.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...accelerates-schedule-on-daca-legal-challenge/

    And so there it is- a June 2018 SCOTUS hearing on the ending of the Obamacare DACA ExO via Trump ExO. There is no DACA emergency. The current injunction and thereby DACA will continue on that thru the SCOTUS decision.

    Building the wall (or fence or whatever you want to call it) is already law on the books- it only lacks funding. So pass a full budget funding the wall; and work on DACA and all immigration reform in a separate bill in the interim...

    By the way, the Trump admin wants and needs this SCOTUS hearing as it is an extreme and egregious instance of judicial overreach/abuse of the separation of powers by the 9th Circuit (again.) It's absurd for a judge to say that an ExO (especially a clearly illegal one such as DACA) by one admin cannot be undone by the ExO of a subsequent administration. It's obvious that the Progs plan to judicially obstruct any policy the POTUS wants to implement; and the SCOTUS needs to lay the smackdown on those who continue to attempt to legislate from the bench. Assuming this case is heard (meaning no permanent DACA legislation signed prior to the SCOTUS hearing) coupled with another case before the SCOTUS which addresses the parallel issue regarding the legality of national injunctions by one circuit judges' rule; 2 huge decisions could come down which reign in judicial tyranny in the same session.

    I think the SC rules at least 6-3 in favor of Trump on the DACA thing...probably 5-4 for Trump on the injunction case.
     
  18. Germ

    Germ Legendary Woodsman

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    You would be a great lawyer:)
     
  19. dnoodles

    dnoodles Legendary Woodsman

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    So when Congress builds in a 10% tax on all wire remittances to Mexico (which would equal $2.4 bil/year) meaning Mexico will have fully funded the $20 billion wall by the end of Trump's second term; that means you're cool with the wall!

    Glad we could agree.
     
  20. Germ

    Germ Legendary Woodsman

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    Exactly, no issue at all.

    Let me add the people and business being displaced need to be taking care of, via the last wall we built we are still in court with some of these people, because we tried screwed them on the value of their homes and business.
     
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