Okay let's talk about lava. Lava wasn't formed in "1986." It may have come to the surface in 1986, but the lava consists of rock that was formed thousands, if not millions of years ago, depending on the kind of rock involved. End of discussion. Your lack of knowledge of what lava actually is merely demonstrates your general lack of knowledge of science. If you have unshakeable faith in the Biblical account of events, why not just stick with that? I can respect that. You should not be getting in over your head trying to discuss science if you don't have a real background in science. Researchers in the various scientific disciplines never set out to discredit the Biblical accounts. It just happened that as we became more aware, through research in physics, astronomy, geology, biology, paleontology, archeology, etc., that certain stories in the Bible are incorrect. That's not my fault or the fault of anyone doing research. It should not be surprising that we would learn facts about the natural world that are at variance with a Book written about 3,000 years ago and never updated. If you read my post, you are aware that I believe in a spiritual world coexistent with our physical world. And I believe in a creator. And I believe that creator is in and part of everything and every creature. There are some differences between my religion and Christianity. For example, Christianity, with it's roots in Judaism, has a tradition of blood sacrifice. My religion has nothing like that. So the concept of Jesus as a blood sacrifice for the sins of man has no meaning for me. We also don't have a book of rules such as you find in the Bible. We follow the traditions of our ancestors. Although there is some commonality between those rules and the rules in the Bible. For example, our ancestors require that a wife be obedient to her husband. Although this precept is also found in the Bible I have been roundly criticized for it because it is not politically correct in our modern society. Anyway, the idea that science which does not support the Bible is not sound science, flies in the face of the fact that there are thousands, upon thousands, upon thousands of reliable scientific findings which show that the accounts in the Bible are incorrect. That's just the way it is. I had no intention of getting into a science v. the Bible discussion in this thread. But you brought it up. I can usually depend on, sooner or later, someone with a fundamentalist viewpoint deciding that it's time to say something demeaning about science. Why? May The Sheep Be With You
I believe in the bible AND proven science. Many scientific facts are backed up by the bible. What I don't believe in are scientific "theories" that can't be proven. It's no different than why I believe what the bible says....it can all be proven by historical events etc. If a scientific "fact" can be proven, that's good enough for me. The bible doesn't bash science, it condemns "various and strange teachings".....ie things that are opinions or theories that are presented as facts. Science as a whole has benefited society immensely. It has it's place...until it tries to discredit God.
Yes, the lava wasn't formed then but it cooled then. I'm not here to battle every single detail because I sumarized and you aren't changing my mind and I'm not changing yours. They watched the lava cool in 1986, tested it a few years later, and then were stumped to find that their method said it was 350,000 years old. They later admitted it was an inaccurate method and the reason why is because argon can be retained in rocks and mineral at the time of formation. I disagree with your comment that scientists have proven that things in the Bible are incorrect. It's simply not true because if you look at Christian scientists who use the same fact and laws (that both secular and Christian science agree on) have very sound answers to combat secular claims. What is frustrating is that 2 secular scientists may have completely different theories as to how the universe formed, but when it comes to Creation, they team up because as long as Christian science is "proven" wrong they are winning. Of course secular sceintists wouldn't give it the time of day because "they are right" and simply don't want to believe in God or Creation. I'm ok with that, but there's so many of them who put their whole purpose into defeating God and Christians resort to constant defense. That's also fine, I can live with it. But, we are getting off track from the topic of the rapture and we aren't going to win each other over. You can think you are right and I can think I am right, and I'm ok with that. There are plenty of other threads with this off-topic debate, I'm not here to do it again.
Once again, it's not sound or proven science just because it agrees with the Bible. There are rules as to whether a result is based on quality research or not. Whether or not a research result agrees with the Bible is simply not relevant. Some scientists believe in God, some do not. I happen to believe, but in my work it doesn't matter. Science is not trying to discredit God. The subject of God never comes up when discussing a research project. And God and the Bible are not synonymous. One can believe in God and not believe in the Bible. May The Sheep Be With You
That isn't what I said. I didn't say that the bible is the only thing that can prove science is sound. There is no specific criteria for a scientific fact to be "proven" because each case differs. If the bible does however back up what scientific research shows, then all the more reason for me to believe it.
I haven't been to the forums since December. Just been busy with work and school and the baby. I came here originally just for bowhunting tips and knowledge but these discussions really suck me in sometimes. I'm not going to give my opinion at all..BUT...I do want to share something here for both the believers and the non-believers. For those of you that are interested and have some free time I am including the a link to a series from my church Christ Fellowship in Miami, FL called "I wish I knew what to believe". It's a total of 7 parts (took place every weekend for 7 weeks) about 50 min each. The first one is called "is there a god?" I encourage everyone that has taken place in this thread to watch this series. I promise that this series is not going to try to convert you into Christianity or to force feed you the bible. It's not like that. Treat this series as if the whole idea of "god" or a "creator" was on trial! And the only thing admissible in court is observable evidence! In court there can not be a reasonable doubt or the party on trail is off the hook! Watch this series...keep an open mind..and pretend you are a juror and God/Jesus is on trial. here is the link to the 1st video: Is There A God? after the first video there is a tab in the middle right hand side (if your watching from your PC) that says sermons in this series..click on the next video... I hope ya'll watch. peace.
The rapture is not real. The Latin word rapiemur that means "caught up" is mentioned in Paul's writing. The thing you have to remember is this is a translation or transliteration from a different language. The Scriptures were written in Hebrew/Paleo Hebrew and then later translated into the Greek or Latin Vulgate. NO WHERE in the passage (1 Thess. 4:14–17) that is says they will go to Heaven. We will simply meet Him in the air. He(The Messiah) is only coming back once. He is not going to open the door or gate and say "Come Up Here!" You have to understand that the Bible does not contradict itself, it supports itself. If this, the rapture was true, then how can someone explain Matthews 24:22 where the Messiah says, "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." If the elect are with Him, then why would the days need to be shortened? See how this can be confusing to some? When the Righteous/Elect meet Him in the air this will be at the First Resurrection. This Scripture is giving a brief description of Revelations 20:1-6. This will be when Christ returns to the earth to establish His Kingdom. Satan will be bound and cast into an abyss for a 1000 years. This is the only time He will return. Once and for all. And when He does, those that lived and died for Him will meet Him in the air. Not to go back to Heaven. But to be with Him as He establishes His Kingdom here on earth. Then there will be a new(renewed) Heaven and a new(renewed) earth. Revelations 21:1-2. The word for new here is the word kanos which is translated renewed. This subject is confusing to many because it is taken out of context. If it says, I will bring them to Heaven where I am, then it would be self- explanatory. But it doesn't. It simply says We Will Meet Him in the air! I hope this helps!
Thank you for responding to the original post....a lot of tangents going off here. I'm glad I'm not the only one that believes the rapture isn't real. The scriptures you used are different than the ones I used, but the same general reasoning. The teaching of the rapture simply doesn't make sense when the proper context of the scriptures is applied
