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The myth of big deer genetics and breeding...

Discussion in 'Bowhunting Talk' started by Dubbya, Nov 27, 2013.

  1. Schultzy

    Schultzy Grizzled Veteran

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    Where I live and hunt mature buck numbers (4.5 and older) are very low so yes the majority of the breeding I think is done by the younger bucks. The most aggressive bucks and some of the easiest ones to shoot during the rut are the 2.5 and 3.5 year olds from my experiences. The 1.5 year olds are just dumb anytime of the season. The older bucks (4.5 and up) do their share of breeding too. They don't loose 75% of their body fat for nothing. In my opinion the older bucks are the ones who travel much, much more looking for doe's.
     
  2. englum_06

    englum_06 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    A lot more than most people think. Mature bucks are outnumbered by a large margin in most places in the country. Unless your ratio is perfect, Id bet your 1.5s and 2.5s are breeding a heck of a lot more often then most realize.

    If you chase enough tail, you're bound to get lucky a few times, right? I think we can all relate to that.
     
  3. englum_06

    englum_06 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Do you feel that for the little guys it's more of a "sprint" where they stay somewhat local and just chase any slickhead around, and for the mature bucks it's more of a "marathon" where they just stay focused on cruising longer distances (often at night still) and scent checking all areas as they go?
     
  4. Cougar Mag

    Cougar Mag Weekend Warrior

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    Great thread. Mature buck or young buck, most all have the potential to pass on great genes.
     
  5. TJF

    TJF Grizzled Veteran

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    This for the most part.

    Haven't had a chance to look up the studies and things got busy here. Will try to get it done tonight.

    Tim
     
  6. TJF

    TJF Grizzled Veteran

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  7. Schultzy

    Schultzy Grizzled Veteran

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    The younger guys IMO follow any doe whether she's ready or not. The old mature bucks follow a doe that's ready or close. Until they find one they go cruising. Sometimes a long ways. Again just my opinion. In 2009 and 2010 I learned a ton about an old buck I was chasing. I hunted him and only him for 2 years. Numerous times during the rut I watched him check doe's. It was quick work too. He'd go up to them and give them a quick sniff and off he went as they weren't hot. Younger bucks would chase her anyway. In 2010 he was killed by my neighbor 3/4 of a mile to the east of me November 30th while breeding a doe. He was shot my a muzzleloader. This buck dressed out at 135lbs. He was a 5.5 year old buck. The 1st time I saw him in 2010 (October 28th) he was all of 220lbs dressed. All of his tines were in tact. Almost every point had an inch or so broke off when he was shot late November. Aggressive and on the run buck he was. When I went to go look at this buck the day he shot it he already had it skinned out. The carcass hanging there looked like a young buck. Zero fat. He looked to have lost a ton of muscle mass as well. I was so shocked but this told me these old guys really do put the miles on.

    Come December when bucks go on the move looking for new doe's we never get pics of younger new bucks on our trail camera's. It's always pics of older bucks that we've never saw before. Who knows how far their coming from.
     
  8. CoveyMaster

    CoveyMaster Grizzled Veteran

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    Agree, the old bucks are savvy and travel. My #1 this year had lost a ton of weight and muscle mass as well when he was taken the
    16th of november. That post is spot on.

    I don't think of a 5.5 year old as an "old" buck though anymore. I think of 7-8 as an "old buck", they start slowing down like an old person by that age. I mark 5.5 the first year as completely mature in my mind. They are old in comparison to life expectancy (hunter kill) though.
     
  9. Dubbya

    Dubbya Moderator

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  10. PSEREVENGEMAN

    PSEREVENGEMAN Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Definition of cull/management buck? A "trophy hunter" who has to justify dropping his standards to fill his tag.
    I looked at over 80 bucks during peak breeding this year and while mature bucks posture and fight the lil forkie is driving Ms. Daisy on the side. I hunt and have watched this happen on the same dirt for almost 40 years. Besides the buck is 1/2 the genetic potential. Should we now start taking out genetically inferior doe as well? Eyelash or tail length?
     

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